BruderMurus on 26/2/2017 at 02:32
It seems too me that all missions seem to be without life... its empty ... there is barely conversations ... all seems so mechanical and boring.
When i think of mission " party " in thief 2 in the angelwatch the party seems to be pretty disappointing. Maybe 3 or 4 people are in the " main partyroom ".
on the other hand its also not helping putting more characters inside ... they all move so mechanical ... barely random stuff... only conversations with themselves...
im really trying to figure out how to bring more life into the fanmissions ... any ideas ?
maybe an audio of different conversations each lasting 5 min or so ? and then repeating those different 5 min conversations randomly ...
any other ideas ?
john9818a on 26/2/2017 at 04:44
I think long conversations means lots of idle time for the player. Repeating the conversations might make the player stop to listen when it's not necessary. Usually the AI are talking to themselves, and it wouldn't be that hard to make them talk to each other in passing. To me it would be hard to focus on the mission if the AI were in long conversations that repeat.
downwinder on 26/2/2017 at 05:27
it can be done,but thew amount of work would be crazy and take even longer for fan missions to come out,for example,behind windows you can put silhouettes/etc to make it seem like people are at home on windows that are not accessible,put some a.i.'s in map and make them light up when you can click on them ,and they can either just tell you some random tip/have a side quest to get a item from them,etc
in some closed off buildings add the people noises like its a bar/etc
more variety of lighting in windows,some windows might have a dim red light as others might be white/etc make it seem like the city is real
add different kinds of a.i. from pagan/etc
a touch more animals would be a great touch to tame burricks in a barn,tame frog beasts/etc
one thing about how fan missions are now,is kinda why i like them,they set up for garrett to do the mission and have as little distraction as possible,over all i think its very well done by the authors,but i do think a few little touches should be added more like dogs and cats sounds behind doors/fences,more signage in missions would be nice,also layout of missions can affect how you feel in a map
maybe someone can make a list of things that should be in a fan mission,like dewdrop,dogs and cats sounds,etc then when someone makes a mission after they do all the hard design work they can pull out list and say ok where can i put this/etc then it will be bit more filled and its still people would recommend to add to a mission,and yes different themes can be done for example demon type fan missions would require different set of things to add compared to say a mission on a boat,so it all depends of type of fan mission the creator makes depends on what they can add to make it seem more life like with in the limits of thief/etc
but i think other resources form other games like system shock should be used more in small amounts just to add a bit of a twist to missions,a good example would be finding a secret area and omg its a system shock soda machine/etc
i always felt the little extras is what makes me go back to alot of the fan missions
a great example is there is this one pirate mission that takes place at a big mansion type place,and there is a easter egg of a legalize weed,i was like wow something real in thief even if a small part,then later in mission you have an optional place to go to get more loot i think from some skeleton/etc things like that are why i like fan missions
nothing aginst the main plot of a mission but after so many times its nice to play the missions with a bit extra,extra objectives/easter eggs
and i am sure we all will admit that first time we found the thief gold easter egg in that one mission on the roof of that city with the boxes of thief gold,balloons/etc that was like wow/dope fish/etc
we need more extra's
ohhh one of my newer things i like is when i play a mission and they add something about another mission like that glass cutter guild item/stained glass in a secret rooom then there sounds plays and you think omg they are deep with in other missions
Yandros on 26/2/2017 at 18:05
Using spoken word conversations to bring life to an area like a tavern is a mistake IMO. For one thing, they are very intrusive into immersion and gameplay if they are just intended as background (as John said), and for another if there are specific lines spoken then any reuse of them is painfully obvious to the player. For a wonderful example of how to make the people in a mission seem alive while not intruding on immersion, see PukeyBrunster's Morbid Curiosity. The inn and streets are full of the sound of people talking and laughing, synchronized to well chosen motions, but there is no actual dialogue to distract the player. This is how it should be done.
fxdwg on 26/2/2017 at 20:34
If you've ever played The Elder Scrolls IV (or even V), anywhere there is more than one NPC, they are always having conversations with each other. There is almost nothing said of importance, but it adds atmosphere.
Anytime they run into another NPC, they immediately strike up a conversation.
Many times a guard or an NPC comes up to you to make a comment about some action at certain locations, which sometimes adds a small side quest to check out.
Also, in locations such as inns, taverns, and in cities, there is always ambient noises and crowd murmurings which gives the effect of feeling like you're surrounded by many people.
I think a problem with adding this functionality to a game that essentially has none, would be the extra voice work required to create the effect.
And in some cases, not sure about the Thief game engine, but extra NPCs and scripting could cause performance issues.
JarlFrank on 26/2/2017 at 21:18
A big problem in Oblivion and Skyrim is that once you have heard the same conversations a couple of times, you know them all by heart and they feel repetitive and silly.
"I've seen a mudcrab recently."
"Yes. Horrible creatures. I avoid them whenever I can."
When people talk about the exact same thing 100 times it stops adding immersion and just makes you aware that you're playing a game with limited resources.
Azaran on 26/2/2017 at 21:55
I think all you need is enough conversations for immersion to take place. (
http://thiefmissions.com/m/Rocksbourg3) Ink and Dust for instance is teeming with atmosphere, it has a good quantity of convos between NPC's (and brilliant voice acting) that make it perfect
fxdwg on 27/2/2017 at 00:12
Quote Posted by JarlFrank
A big problem in Oblivion and Skyrim is that once you have heard the same conversations a couple of times, you know them all by heart and they feel repetitive and silly.
"I've seen a mudcrab recently."
"Yes. Horrible creatures. I avoid them whenever I can."
When people talk about the exact same thing 100 times it stops adding immersion and just makes you aware that you're playing a game with limited resources.
I agree with you but that wasn't my point. But with fan missions, there could be the possibility of further conversations if someone wanted to put forth the effort of additional lines of dialog.
BruderMurus on 27/2/2017 at 02:35
Quote Posted by fxdwg
If you've ever played The Elder Scrolls IV (or even V), anywhere there is more than one NPC, they are always having conversations with each other. There is almost nothing said of importance, but it adds atmosphere.
Anytime they run into another NPC, they immediately strike up a conversation.
Many times a guard or an NPC comes up to you to make a comment about some action at certain locations, which sometimes adds a small side quest to check out.
Also, in locations such as inns, taverns, and in cities, there is always ambient noises and crowd murmurings which gives the effect of feeling like you're surrounded by many people.
I think a problem with adding this functionality to a game that essentially has none, would be the extra voice work required to create the effect.
And in some cases, not sure about the Thief game engine, but extra NPCs and scripting could cause performance issues.
i like this idea... reminds me of the first level of thief 1 where the guard tells you " how is it going " ... thats the only time i remember any random NPC talked to me randomly in thief :thumb:
