Uncle Gus on 16/10/2007 at 07:06

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I haven't played the third one yet, but I have played the first two. I think they're great, but I was also disappointed about a lot of the features that others have mentioned; the complete amnesia that bad guys have, the fact you remain hidden if your feet are in the dark, you can knock people down by leaning forward into them and all that crazy stuff. I was thinking about how I would design a Thief game today that would still capture the atmosphere that the Thief games do so well. I was thinking something more like System Shock 2 combined with Port Royale 2.

It would have revisitable sections, like System Shock 2, and it would have randomly generated characters and items, like System Shock 2, and it would have some kind of factions, like Port Royale 2, and it would have random missions that you can take up or turn down, like Port Royale 2, or you could just wander around and pick-pocket or break into people's houses, like Port Royale 2, and you would have stats/skills that you could upgrade with training and experience, like System Shock 2, and you would have to pay rent or some other kind of maintenance, like Port Royale 2, and you would be able to fast forward time, at least while you're in your own apartment, like Port Royale 2, and there would be multiple ways of solving problems, like System Shock 2, and there would also be a main mission/storyline that you could act on or leave for as long as you wanted.

I think that's about it.

Sypha Nadon on 18/10/2007 at 01:23

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I recently replayed this one myself, and I actually found myself liking it less the second time around. It just doesn't seem as good as the first two games to me (and I've played both Thief Gold and TMA many, many times). I just didn't get the "Thief" feeling playing TDS, just like how Invisible War didn't give me the Deus Ex feeling (though I will say that Bioshock, which I'm playing right now, is much truer to its System Shock roots). One thing I liked about the first two games was how they both used the same game engine and thus had lots in common in terms of sound, graphics, gameplay and so forth, and thus they both seemed more like being part of the same world. But TDS just seems like it's from another world entirely. Part of this has to do with the new game engine and the graphics, but of course there are other factors, many of which have been mentioned on here already.

No swimming, no lean forward are bad enough, but to me one of the sorest points was the lack of rope arrows. I still recall the first time I was ever exposed to Thief, on some demo CD I got with a computer gaming magazine, and one of the first things they showed was Garrett using a rope arrow outside of Constantine's mansion to climb up to a balcony, and at the time I thought it was the coolest thing ever. Climbing claws just don't cut it. With the first two thief games one got the impression that you could literally go almost anywhere in each mission, but as it's been said TDS is much more linear (I can't see many people getting lost in the missions because they're so straight-forward). I recall there was a great website, Azal's Strange and Unusual guide to Thief 2 (don't know if it exists anymore) and it showed you all the supposedly out of reach areas you could reach in Thief 2 if you had a lot of patience stacking boxes and that sort of thing. I just don't see that level of experimentation in TDS... there's a lot of other minor quibbles too, like how the objects you can interact with are highlighted in this awful blue color, lack of ladders, lack of buildings that are three stories or more, etc. I'll be honest, I loved the huge missions in the first two games (and I'll still argue that Sabotage at Soulforge is perhaps one of the best and most beautiful Thief missions ever), and the missions in TDS were just too darn small, not enough secrets. I play the first two games to this day and I'm still discovering stuff I never noticed before, whereas in my first playthrough of TDS last year I pretty much found everything the game had to offer.

I was also annoyed with the mission intros. In the first two games, the missions are set up with a quote, followed by atmospheric b&w still shots that help set up the mission that follows, with Garrett providning the narration. In TDS, all you get is the blue loading screen with some boring text that Garrett proceeds to read. Very lazy IMO and nowhere as near as cool as the ones in the first two games.

I did like a lot of the injokes though, little references to the first two games, but they just mostly depressed me because those games were so much better. Not that TDS is a bad game... on it's own, it's very enjoyable. I just have trouble seeing it as a Thief game. Another good thing about it is that it makes TMA look a thousand times better in comparison (I recall years ago how that game used to kind of be a whipping boy around here, but I guess that crown has gone to TDS now).

jtr7 on 23/1/2008 at 19:30

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I knew about the project, but it's nice to see it from within the game. Pretty cool, people.

jtr7 on 23/1/2008 at 20:03

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Yes, T3Edders are a uniquely tenacious lot. I didn't know the rope arrows were finished, though.:wot:

jtr7 on 23/1/2008 at 22:39

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That's one of the reasons why T3Editors like Flux are removing loading zones, and going through the painstaking trouble of gluing the separate City sections together, as Beleg has shared.