june gloom on 29/12/2008 at 20:07
I give Steam a pass because it's so much more than simple DRM and on top of that as a DRM system it's quite reasonable. Because all your games are tied to an account, you can basically install the game via Steam on any computer that has Steam and you're logged in.
Steam's had its ups and downs and those early months after HL2 was released really showed the flaws the system had, but that's what's so great about Valve- THEY FIX THEIR OWN FUCKING PROBLEMS rather than just saying "oh it's meant to be like that" or "oh it's your fault." The only time they get all huffy like it's your fault is in the (very) (extremely) rare case that you get VAC-banned for no good reason. They're so fucking insistant on their system being infallible that they won't consider the possibility of their being a mistake. But that's not DRM, that's an anti-cheat issue, so it doesn't count. To my knowledge such a thing has only happened maybe a few times, and I'll bet you half the people complaining loudest about it were indeed cheating.
I don't mind online activation when I install the game. I do that all the time with Steam and it's no skin off my nose. I will tolerate limited installs as I only ever install onto this PC anyway. I don't like the idea, however, of having to use the revocation tool or risk losing an install if I so much as upgrade my computer. That's fucking stupid. I won't buy a game with SecuROM on it. With Valve I never feel like I'm "borrowing" the game like I do with a game like Bioshock. After Bioshock, I "borrow" SecuROM games on my terms.
Steam is intuitive and non-intrusive and is a model for the industry. Whoever thinks SecuROM is a good idea needs to get cancer and die in a fire at an apiary full of AIDS bees.
The old methods, like a disc check every time I start the game, and CD keys (which Valve still uses if you buy a boxed copy, which I always do) are fine. I never had an issue with them, though I use a crack for System Shock 2 'cuz I seriously hate hearing that fucking grinding noise, it always makes my balls shrivel.
Renzatic on 30/12/2008 at 00:20
Quote Posted by Bjossi
Disc keys? I've been used to this for years and years, I see no reason to start disliking it now, although they are about as pointless as disc checks to prevent piracy.
As long as the keys are put on something solid like the inner lining of an actual honest-to-god jewel case or manual.
Case in point: I can no longer play Gothic 2 Gold because they slapped the key on one of those "we're cheap as all fuck all" paper sleeves, which I always promptly lose.
gunsmoke on 30/12/2008 at 13:57
Quote Posted by Renzatic
As long as the keys are put on something solid like the inner lining of an actual honest-to-god jewel case or manual.
Case in point: I can no longer play Gothic 2 Gold because they slapped the key on one of those "we're cheap as all fuck all" paper sleeves, which I always promptly lose.
DooM 3 did it right. Its key is located behind the disc under clear plastic. Very permanent and easy to find.
I had to find some workarounds for Chaser. I jost the slip of paper w/the key on it when I made a very fast move to a new apt. a few years ago. :mad:
bikerdude on 30/12/2008 at 14:12
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
My first preference is none. My realistic preference is something that just activates the software the first time you run it, never requires the disc in the drive after install, and basically just leaves you alone to play the game after that without requiring any special software or an internet connection.
I agree with this.
catbarf on 30/12/2008 at 14:58
Steam's nice, but it won't be around forever and when it dies I'll be SOL. My answer is none. CD keys don't do much, more restrictive DRM both fails when put up against the Pirate Bay and is just a pain in the ass for the legitimate purchaser. You'd think they would have learned after that shit with Lenslok...
Bjossi on 30/12/2008 at 15:26
As long as files can be hacked, any form of DRM is pointless once the critical after-release weeks have passed. If publishers want to play fair, they should patch away the DRM when their games get cracked open by the pirates. From there on the publishers have lost the battle anyway, so they might as well give the legal buyers an equally good time as the pirates will have.
june gloom on 30/12/2008 at 17:23
Quote Posted by catbarf
Steam's nice, but it won't be around forever and when it dies I'll be SOL.
What makes you think Valve won't announce a workaround or some other solution?
Considering that Steam is basically the forefront of digital distribution I seriously doubt they're just going to leave everybody hanging. In fact I would bet money on Steam or a system like it being run for a very long time.
The_Raven on 30/12/2008 at 17:40
Quote Posted by Bjossi
As long as files can be hacked,
any form of DRM is pointless once the critical after-release weeks have passed. If publishers want to play fair, they should patch away the DRM when their games get cracked open by the pirates. From there on the publishers have lost the battle anyway, so they might as well give the legal buyers an equally good time as the pirates will have.
If I recall correctly, this is exactly what the copy protection makers recommend most of the time. Hell, even the StarForce people had this policy. Unfortunately, very few companies actually do this. Hell, the only example I can think of off the top of my head is the people who do the X-series of space sims. Probably has to do with the fact that publishers don't understand or can't be bothered to put together and exe unwrapper for the copy protection after release.
doctorfrog on 30/12/2008 at 19:42
Quote Posted by dethtoll
What makes you think Valve won't announce a workaround or some other solution?
Considering that Steam is basically the forefront of digital distribution I seriously doubt they're just going to leave everybody hanging. In fact I would bet money on Steam or a system like it being run for a very long time.
While I do agree that the likelihood of Steam collapsing is small, it's even less likely that if they do, they will go out of their way to patch the full wealth of their games for the sake of their users (who are only license holders), before locking the doors one last time.
What makes this even less likely is that the power that acquires such a service's assets is probably going to label all the IP as theirs and as such, 'protect' it from use they do not authorize (if they do not wish to keep the activation service running). Publishers today will prevent people from playing abandonware, or sometimes even remakes of abandonware, to protect their IP, whether publisher intends to use it or not.
It's a valid concern.
On the other hand, you do see failed ventures like Tabula Rasa going out with relative grace, offering free play for everyone on their servers for the next few months as their MMO ticks off its final hours. Toys For Bob went out of their way to give permission for their masterpiece, Star Control 2, available for everyone to play. So it could go either way.
june gloom on 30/12/2008 at 21:47
I agree that it's a legitimate concern but I have faith in Valve. They make take forever to get a game out the door but by and large they treat their customers pretty fairly. In my opinion, if any American company can save PC gaming it's these guys.
Besides. Knowing Valve, going out of business would be delayed.
