addone on 11/5/2009 at 16:30

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I love Thief. I love zombies :P I LOVED the zombies in Thief 1 and 2. Not so much in DS. Except the puppets. I'm just curious what made the Thief 1 and 2 zombies and the puppets work so well.

Anybody willing to discuss? :P

One thing for me was the survival element and how a lot of the time it's kind of unexpected. I had no idea that corpse would come to life in Cragscleft. Also the fact that they lay completely still.

It'd be awesome if there were other corpses around that looked like zombies...so you tend to not know which ones would come to life or not.

Opal-Eyed Fan on 11/5/2009 at 17:20

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Zombies should be tough/near impossible to kill.
The more dangerous and tough you make them,
the higher the fear factor.
They should be swarming you,
move slow when walking, move fast when sprinting.
And they should infect you with something when they bite you,
that's right bite you...
not just clawing at you with their hands,
but actually biting into your flesh and infecting you...
putting a timelimit on your life,
if you do not obtain and drink holy water before the time runs out...
the infecion kill you!
And then you turn into
the flesheating former masterthief "eat your brains out" Garret!
If a zombie kill a npc,
that npc should turn into a zombie as well...
and devs, put some old rags on the zombies, zombies are not all nudists...

- And they should be able to smell you, if you crossed an open area, and a zombie happens upon your trail,
he should smell you..
even though he cant see you or hear you because you're not there anymore,
he should smell you and start following you..
when he catches up with you, run for your life
and shoot a stink arrow on a nearby wall to make him loose you....
..;)

addone on 11/5/2009 at 17:33

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I know this game isn't a zombie game. And I know Thief isn't a survival horror. But I think a similar thing to the aliens in Dead Space would work in Thief. A shadow going round the corner or something. I did encounter something quite freaky in an old Thief FM, I was heading into this room, and I could just hear these slow, calm footsteps.

That would be pretty good, in zombie moments, just subtle hints of zombies throughout would work pretty well. It's difficult to explain. Zombie torsos would be pretty good :P having them being quite stealthy.

And also, something that sounds pretty obvious, but game developers seem to avoid, simply making the enemies powerful. That contributes to a lot of scary and intense moments in games... something game developers recently have been afraid to do. Making enemies simply hard to kill, it'd work well in Thief as well, encouraging stealth. But that also makes the horror bits scary, with the atmosphere and other things to add to the horror... simply making you afraid of being seen by an enemy because they WILL easily kill you...is pretty scary.

addone on 11/5/2009 at 17:47

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I know Thief previously had difficult enemies, but games in the past 5 years or so GENERALLY have had pretty easy enemies (there have been some exceptions: Metal Gear Solid 4, Dead Space, Resistance, etc.)

Also, another interesting thing about zombie torsos, in Half-Life 2, sometimes after a battle with zombies, these things could sneak up to you and scare you. Imagine a similar idea applied to Thief. Even ghosters would have to think a lot more, imagine what could be lurking in the shadows that they go to hide in, or behind the objects to which they seek shelter. It'd make it so much more interesting.

Master Taffer 512 on 11/5/2009 at 20:26

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I've never viewed Thief's zombies as flesh eaters. I enjoy the idea that they just have utter contempt and jealousy for the living, which drives them to kill. The only times a zombie was threatening in Thief was in claustrophobic and cramped environments, like the compartments in the Abysmal Gale and some of the narrow paths in the Bonehoard. At those times, it became a real possibility of being cornered by one.

Now, taking that into account, if you make the zombies far more durable than in previous installments, they could cause some serious dread as opponents. Resistance to flashbombs compared to other undead would be a start. While I think their weakness to holy water should remain intact, limiting the holy water supplies in levels is a way to make undead levels tense. A large supply of zombies and a low number of holy water vials while you're cornered would definately require some thinking on your feet.

The Haunts in Thief 1 and 2 were perfect. Fast, deadly, tough enemies that should be avoided at all costs. In Deadly Shadows, I felt they were lacking in the intimidation factor (Mainly because they seemed like they were 5'5".)

Apparitions aren't an absolute must, seeing as there are enough things that fire magic/projectiles at you: Archers, Hammer/Mechanist priests, Pagan shamaan, Keeper elders, bugbeast, spiderbeasts, mages, burricks, fire elmentals, Children of Karras, etc. While I highly doubt that all of those will appear in Thief 4, I think the point is made.

Cradle puppets should stay in the Cradle. And I don't think it's necessary to revisit that building.

(Speaking of Mages, perhaps they could be the faction of focus this game. The Hand Brotherhood still has quite an air of mystery about it, and there's plenty of spaces in the lore for information on the mages.)