How would the storyline develop, if Viktoria was human and a thief ? - by Petike the Taffer
jtr7 on 16/4/2009 at 22:40
Care to nudge the discussion in another direction?
Yes, a rival of much less importance, hardly able to sustain a plot without becoming an entirely different character. Another point is that in all the games, no mission is as intense as the supernatural ones. It would simply not have the draw it does, even if the highly-fantastical elements are a put-off.
ShyGreenMoon on 17/4/2009 at 07:03
I enjoy 'what if' discussions as well, they remind me of Elseworlds comics, like the one I just read about a Victorian Batman vs. Jack the Ripper.
Viktoria never struck me as the loner type. Rather, she was more of a fanatic. In Thief 1, her actions were motivated by serving the Trickster, which was basically her god. In Thief 2, her actions were motivated by the danger she percieved to her pagan followers, and to nature as a whole. She's cause-driven, which is what makes her a good foil for Garrett. If she was human, I could see her being a member of the City Watch or even a Mechanist, if she had chosen a non-pagan path. As a thief, well, a thief with a cause. A robin-hood, Green-Arrow type persona, which would highly annoy Garrett. Of course this could lead to them working together for a common cause at some point, but I don't think he'd have the same respect for her. He would probably look at her noble intentions the same way he viewed the Keepers.
Personally, I'd like to know a little more about Artemis. How he became a Keeper and what he would be if he were not a Keeper, or if there were no Keepers. He has a strong sense of Duty, but he doesn't approve of the ruthless means of the Keepers. And why does he have such a keen interest in Garrett? I always thought he was more powerful than he let on, due to the fact that he could out-sneak both Garrett and the other Keepers. I was sad when Gamal ate him.
jtr7 on 17/4/2009 at 08:59
Ate him?:eww:
The fans like to believe Artemus was the one whom Garrett tried to pickpocket, though that's just a fan-preference. In TDS, he simply believed Garrett was the One. A cliché oft used in fantasy stories: Obi-Wan and Anakin, Morpheus and Neo, etc. The whole splinter-group was on Garrett's side, even though they had a serious reason to be scared about many things. They alone trusted the Glyphs and what they foretold, while others were unkindly dismissive. Artemus did tell Garrett he could've killed him, and it was sad we never saw his full potential. It's possible he was one of few as skilled as the ancients, even though he was not as privy to the ancients' knowledge, as Gamall had been hiding critical writings for centuries, so the last generations just didn't have the knowledge to work with.
Recently, having finally begun to discover exactly where and when certain texts are available to the player in the course of the game (since my install was always buggy, until recently), I realized that Garrett is called The One almost specifically in a book in the Forbidden Library. An anomaly, perhaps written recently, given the complete ignorance and disbelief of the Keepers as a whole:
From KCpendulum: "While the darkness was defeated by the True Keeper, trickery thrown back onto the Trickster himself, the balance shifted..."
ShyGreenMoon on 17/4/2009 at 09:49
Yes I remember that passage, which is what prompted that thread I had about what Garrett would be like as the One True Keeper. Calling him the One True Keeper implies that there is something about him that makes him more suited to guard the knowledge of the Glyphs than anyone else, rather than just the guy who ended up with the powers because he was in the right place at the right time.
I think part of the reason fans think Artemis is the one who found Garrett (I like to think so) is because the keeper who catches Garrett sounds like Artemis. At least to me. I agree Artemis had faith in Garrett, and the poor guy was trying to bring Garrett around when Orland kept ticking him off in all of the games.
I'd just be curious to know more of his origins, and just how powerful was he. And what he was doing behind the scenes when people like Orland were running things.
Also, what happened to the enforcers after the fall of the keepers? That would sort of suck if they could no longer use telepathy and still had their faces welded shut. Of course, in my version of TSD, there were none left alive after I back-stabbed them all...
Maybe Garrett keeps them in a kennel now and feeds them little treats that can fit through the slits in their masks.
Platinumoxicity on 17/4/2009 at 10:33
1.When looking for the Horn of Quintus and the Mystic's stones, one of the stones is already missing.
2.Garrett gets an offer from a mysterious source to steal a sword.
3.Turns out that both Garrett and Viktoria were tested by Constantine and both of them got his offer.
4.Both go to the quest for The Eye and it becomes a competition about who gets the talismans first.
5.Both get some talismans and go to the cathedral together.
6.When Garrett gets The Eye, Viktoria betrays him and conveniently stabs him in his "flesh eye."
7.Constantine betrays Viktoria and leaves her to die, but Garrett comes around to enquire about what happened.
8.Viktoria wants revenge, Garrett doesn't give a shit but ends up going anyway.
9.Maw -> fake Eye -> ConstantineBOOM!
10. Garrett and Viktoria get the offer from the Keepers. Garrett doesn't give a shit and Viktoria joins the Keepers.
jtr7 on 17/4/2009 at 10:40
EDIT: Whoops! Sorry Platinumoxicity! Carry on.
ShyGreenMoon: Nate Wells did main Keeper voices in all the games, including the very first Keeper we ever see, and good ol' Artemus, and the main Keeper who talks to him in TMA called "Keeper Nate", as well as the Instructor in A Keeper's Training. Dan Thron did other main Keepers, including the one who speaks to Garrett during his rescue before Escape! and at the end of TDP/Gold.
Artemus was off doing research that helped Garrett in the end, and was ambushed by Gamall while Garrett was expecting her to show up at the Museum. Artemus effectively, if not intentionally, bought Garrett some time with his life.
The Enforcers were Glyph-modified, so they either died when the glyphs vanished from existence, or reverted back to less than who they were before, since they would be even less powerful, and who knows how fundamentally they were changed.
All the Keeper writings and the sayings of The Eye tell us that Garrett was not The One for certain, until his eye fueled The Eye, attuning them to each other. Once that happened Garrett became The One of prophecy, but he still had to fulfill the rest. He was not an official Keeper, having refused the induction ceremony, leaving the Order in disgust. Caduca saved his life, then, because the Council wanted to send the Enforcers after him, to erase him, and she persuaded them to wait and see. When Orland gave Garrett permission to use the Keeper Door Glyphs, he finally became an official Keeper, because he finally completed the last step of the Acolyte Ritual. Only The Eye could initiate the Final Glyph, and The Eye would only agree to do so if The One collected all the Sentients together, and placed them into their receptacles in the proper sequence. Having done everything the Glyph Prophecies foretold were all the required elements, Garrett became The One True Keeper, bearing "The Mark" of the key symbol.
ShyGreenMoon on 17/4/2009 at 10:47
Quote Posted by jtr7
ShyGreenMoon: Nate Wells did main Keeper voices in all the games, including the very first Keeper we ever see, and good ol' Artemus, and the main Keeper who talks to him in TMA called "Keeper Nate", as well as the Instructor in
A Keeper's Training. Dan Thron did other main Keepers, including the one who speaks to Garrett during his rescue before
Escape! and at the end of TDP/Gold.
Please don't crush my dreams. :(
jtr7 on 17/4/2009 at 10:59
What?
Petike the Taffer on 17/4/2009 at 16:24
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
1.When looking for the Horn of Quintus and the Mystic's stones, one of the stones is already missing.
2.Garrett gets an offer from a mysterious source to steal a sword.
3.Turns out that both Garrett and Viktoria were tested by Constantine and both of them got his offer.
4.Both go to the quest for The Eye and it becomes a competition about who gets the talismans first.
5.Both get some talismans and go to the cathedral together.
6.When Garrett gets The Eye, Viktoria betrays him and conveniently stabs him in his "flesh eye."
7.Constantine betrays Viktoria and leaves her to die, but Garrett comes around to enquire about what happened.
8.Viktoria wants revenge, Garrett doesn't give a shit but ends up going anyway.
9.Maw -> fake Eye -> ConstantineBOOM!
10. Garrett and Viktoria get the offer from the Keepers. Garrett doesn't give a shit and Viktoria joins the Keepers.
Cool ! :D :) Love it...
jtr7 on 18/4/2009 at 00:17
Good stuff, yes.
A tweak:
6. Con likes Viki better, but thinks she's a little outmatched (Garrett has an edge with his Keeper training, even if no one knows that's his secret, but COn feels threatened by him), so he gives her an extra incentive: kill Garrett and bring me his intact eye as proof.
