AfroTaffer on 21/11/2008 at 21:10
Quote Posted by jtr7
His cowardice (never mind the aggressive players or aggressive player moments) is in avoiding confrontation when he is the enemy, the infiltrator, the intruder, the thief. As for the aggressive players, of varying levels, he will hide, backstab, knock someone unconscious and from behind, or snipe from a distance, all to avoid what he's got coming. It's not a generalized cowardice, but a specific kind, meant to avoid facing his victims or facing off with those who are doing their jobs.:cheeky:
And yeah...he steals from servants and babies, too. The player may opt not to do it, but the loot is there, it counts when collected, and Garrett never expresses regret when the player takes whatever can be taken.
Specialized cowardice.
Besides, some guards will call you coward if you run away from them.
FACT!
jtr7 on 21/11/2008 at 21:17
Yes. Most AI call him a coward for simply hiding, or say it to provoke him (really, the player). I will admit to both being initially stunned at your comment, as well as knowing what you must have meant. People are used to hearing the term coward used as a supreme insult, so offense is the knee-jerk response.
AfroTaffer on 22/11/2008 at 01:51
Quote Posted by jtr7
Yes. Most AI call him a coward for simply hiding, or say it to provoke him (really, the player). I will admit to both being initially stunned at your comment, as well as knowing what you must have meant. People are used to hearing the term
coward used as a supreme insult, so offense is the knee-jerk response.
Your previous comment is exactly as I see the character.
Of course fear is an effective defense mechanism for every dangerous situation, calling Garret a coward is an exaggeration, but tell me how'd you feel if some professional thief had to knocked you out from behind without a honorous battle!
pavlovscat on 22/11/2008 at 02:14
I see your point jtr, but I don't neccessarily agree. I prefer to think of him as a prudent character. He has inferior weapons & fighting skills. Going head to head with an armored guard is suicide for him. I don't consider avoiding conflict when you are overmatched to be cowardice. It's just self preservation. He has other skills which he uses to advantage, just as the guards use their skills to stop him. Are the guards being brave when they attack an overmatched opponent?
jtr7 on 22/11/2008 at 02:16
I wasn't expressing my personal opinion so much as clarifying what I believed AfroTaffer meant. You're both right. :) I was thinking more that he's a moderate social-phobic whose passion is taking what belongs to others, from right under their noses, in their own territory, for his own gain, and getting away with it. Combat is not what he wants, but he's not against taking someone out to save his own skin as a last resort. Never mind that he can be played outside that paradigm.
The Shroud on 22/11/2008 at 05:48
I think it should be noted that the best insight we have into Garrett's persona when it comes to his desires, priorities, and methods during missions is the Mission Objectives the game provides - especially those given on Expert mode, since Garrett himself is an expert. From the Expert mode Objectives, we can gather the following:
-Garrett loots as much as possible during his jobs - especially gems (Lost City, Rumford's).
-He hates leaving a mess and avoids killing humans under any circumstances.
-He does favors for friends (Basso), and even Keepers (retrieved medallions).
-He has an eye for women at times (Basso's sister, Viktoria - no pun intended).
-He believes in luck, despite his skepticism (Lucky Hand of Glory, Watchman's Grave).
-He's a daredevil, but he does take precautions (holy water, fire arrows, etc).
-He enjoys making fools of his enemies (stole Ramirez's fire-poker and belt-purse).
-He gathers information whenever possible (info on Constantine, Trickster's plans, etc).
-He takes the opportunity to steal unique items (First Hammer, Navigation Globe, etc).
-He has a conscience (saved the world three times).
Can anyone else add more?
demagogue on 22/11/2008 at 08:32
Quote Posted by The Shroud
-He believes in luck, despite his skepticism (Lucky Hand of Glory, Watchman's Grave).
He lives in a world where magic happens to be a real phenomenon. I think his skepticism isn't against the supernatural existing or working, including luck, religion, and magic -- it's clearly all real in his world -- but a cynicism that it's necessarily "better". But he isn't above letting it help in him a bind, or being opportunistic with it (along with anything else), I think.
The Shroud on 22/11/2008 at 08:52
I would agree with that.
Thor on 22/11/2008 at 17:02
Umm... pff? If you call Garrett coward, then he might aswell not be Thief at all and just bet some marketing buisnessman like everyone else...................
He does not kill, because he does not want to kill anyone (i know, i would never kill anyone, unless i have unimaginable hatred for him or i had no other choice). Simple as that. Actually, in a manner, we decide whether his a coward (so NOT) or a brainless meat slasher.
Shroud, you are the man.
Ehh... tried to think further to your list Garrett's characteristics, but since i tried it on purpuse, my brain potentional closes and i can't think of anything. But when i'll have real thaughts about it, i'm sure i'll find something to add to your list.
EvaUnit02 on 23/11/2008 at 14:39
Parts of his personality is a variable of the player's actions. Eg (
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30310) This play style could be construed as cowardly and ignored by one player. This guy might have qualms with throwing objects or slashing banners. He might play on Hard specifically so that he can take pleasure in killing humans, like drowning guards.
