Hypothesis: the more educated you are the less likely you are to be religious - by SubJeff
Azaran on 31/1/2012 at 03:13
It's worth noting that the Book of Revelation is believed by many scholars to have been a Jewish apocalyptic text originally, that was adopted by Christians early on, edited by them accordingly and attributed to John:
(
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12712-revelation-book-of)
The succeeding part (iv.-xx. 8) contains several Jewish apocalypses worked into one, so altered, interpolated, and remodeled as to impress the reader as the work of the author of the letters to the seven churches. In the following the attempt is made to acquaint the reader with the contents of the two original Jewish apocalypses, as far as they can be restored, the Christian interpolations and alterations being put aside.....
The Epistles are, like the Gospel, Pauline in spirit and written for Pauline churches; the Book of Revelation remains, under its Christian cloak, a Jewish document.The emphasis on Rome as being the Enemy is not unique to Revelation, but was widely present in Jewish texts from the period.
Now as to Jesus' mission, there are indications in the NT that he only came to instruct the Jews, and his message was reserved for them:
“I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24)
Of course, there's also the Great Commission, which instructs the disciples to go to all nations, but the ultimate intent of Jesus' message remains nebulous
Independent Thief on 31/1/2012 at 12:54
Quote Posted by Azaran
It's worth noting that the Book of Revelation is believed by many scholars to have been a Jewish apocalyptic text originally, that was adopted by Christians early on, edited by them accordingly and attributed to John:
(
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12712-revelation-book-of)
The succeeding part (iv.-xx. 8) contains several Jewish apocalypses worked into one, so altered, interpolated, and remodeled as to impress the reader as the work of the author of the letters to the seven churches. In the following the attempt is made to acquaint the reader with the contents of the two original Jewish apocalypses, as far as they can be restored, the Christian interpolations and alterations being put aside.....
The Epistles are, like the Gospel, Pauline in spirit and written for Pauline churches; the Book of Revelation remains, under its Christian cloak, a Jewish document.The emphasis on Rome as being the Enemy is not unique to Revelation, but was widely present in Jewish texts from the period.
Now as to Jesus' mission, there are indications in the NT that he only came to instruct the Jews, and his message was reserved for them:
“I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24)
Of course, there's also the Great Commission, which instructs the disciples to go to all nations, but the ultimate intent of Jesus' message remains nebulous
Well, I don't expect Jewish sources to agree with Christian theology.:rolleyes:
Kenneth Gentry makes a case for the pre-70 AD writing of Revelation here: (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLLE4srpZOA) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLLE4srpZOA
As for Mattthew 15:24, it is part of a larger story:
Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon.
And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed."
But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us." But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, "Lord, help me!"
But He answered and said, "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the little dogs." And she said, "Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters' table." Then Jesus answered and said to her, "O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
Matthew 15:22-28 NKJVJesus had a prophetic role to fulfill which took place in Israel-that explains the reference to 'I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel', after the resurrection-He sent his disciples to proclaim his victory over sin and death to other nations. This is hinted at throughout the Old Testament and Gospels.
DDL on 31/1/2012 at 13:10
Am I alone in finding the concept of being "severely demon-possessed" utterly hilarious?
:("Heal me, o lord!"
:angel:"Are you possessed?"
:("Yes!"
:angel:"You don't look very possessed. I have other patients, you know: many of them far more severely possessed than you. You should count yourself lucky. Get some sleep and come back only if your possession worsens. Next!"
:("..."
Thirith on 31/1/2012 at 13:25
Well, it always depends on which demon you're possessed by. Possession by Pazuzu, King of the Demons of the Wind and bearer of droughts? You're screwed, my man, and only the Good Lord's hand can help you.
Possession by Phlbbltttt, Master of Minor Flatulence and Other Embarrassing But Far From Lethal Digestive Ailments? Please. The Messiah wouldn't even get out of the house on the Sabbath for that.
Independent Thief on 31/1/2012 at 13:46
Quote Posted by DDL
Am I alone in finding the concept of being "
severely demon-possessed" utterly hilarious?
:("Heal me, o lord!"
:angel:"Are you possessed?"
:("Yes!"
:angel:"You don't
look very possessed. I have other patients, you know: many of them far more severely possessed than you. You should count yourself lucky. Get some sleep and come back only if your possession worsens. Next!"
:("..."
Quote Posted by Thirith
Well, it always depends on which demon you're possessed by. Possession by Pazuzu, King of the Demons of the Wind and bearer of droughts? You're screwed, my man, and only the Good Lord's hand can help you.
Possession by Phlbbltttt, Master of Minor Flatulence and Other Embarrassing But Far From Lethal Digestive Ailments? Please. The Messiah wouldn't even get out of the house on the Sabbath for that.
Inline Image:
http://honoluluweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/qb-spam-jam.jpg:rolleyes:
DDL on 31/1/2012 at 14:09
Hah. Posting jokes is spam, but quoting both (in full, no less) AND adding a giant image..is fine?
Anyway, moving on.
So, other than the big bang, are there any other topics that get regularly brought up as "science has no answer to this, thus: god exists" fuel? I'm curious (and bored, admittedly).
(and y'know: self-confessed scientist here, so I'm naturally nosy anyway)
Thirith on 31/1/2012 at 14:17
Duck-billed platypus. Let science explain that one!
(Let's be honest, an overly imaginative creator deity smoking pot is the much likelier explanation for the platypus.)
Bakerman on 31/1/2012 at 14:28
The Higgs boson?
I'm not aware of any real examples of 'we really don't know what this is -> God', but I've heard a lot of argument about irreducible complexity. The motory bits of certain cells (flagellum? I think that's the one) being basically a tiny DC motor, for example.
faetal on 31/1/2012 at 16:31
:laff:
I know of nothing in science which points towards a creator. I'm pretty sure if anything did, its existence would be very well known about as there are countless very vocal religious folk who would trumpet its existence from the rooftops.
Anyone else notice that if something in the bible sounds too fantastical to be true, you can guarantee that someone will bend over backwards to say "aaah, after careful examination, we conclude that part was allegorical". For some reason, they still seem to have trouble applying that explanation to the entire book though..
