sunburn on 17/4/2001 at 02:10

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Though I am fairly new to Deus Ex (but I HAVE beat it once and am now on my second playthrough) and these boards I have heard you guys talke about Thief 2 and SS2, are you really that good? Would I like them if I liked DE? Should I get them/one of them? I have heard of Thief but is there good conversations in it like DE?

sunburn

ToolHead on 17/4/2001 at 07:27

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The Thief games are VERY dissimilar to DX.
Sunburn - you haven´t played Thief - The Dark Project? Thief II has more über-sneaking, less zombie-bashing, fewer crap-yourself-in-terror experiences, and about the same amount of AI interaction (virtually none).
Thief II - The Metal Age is inferior to Thief - TDP, but it´s still the second best game I´ve ever played.

System Shock 2 is different. It´s much, MUCH more frenetic and hectic and even more scary than Thief - TDP. It´s horribly scary.
You are very alone. Everything you meet is trying its best to kill you (and in many cases doing a damn fine job, too).
And unlike the Thief games, SS2 has RPG elements, which actually work pretty much the way they do in DX.

What I liked about DX was the feeling of choice; that I decided what to do and when to do it (an illusion, I know - but the feeling was there), the wonderfully complex plot, the level of AI interaction, and the augmentations and the endless possibilities they represent. And I loved the way JC was able to defend his actions by rational arguments. That´s a first in a (pseudo-) action game, to the best of my knowledge.
But the game wasn´t scary. Tense, but never truly scary.

What I liked about SS2 was being scared out of my mind the whole time. I´ve never played anything like it.
The story is fantastic, with some truly memorable moments, and basically it´s a textbook example of how to create and maintain an immersive and scary atmosphere.
However, the utter lack of AI interaction is a weak point. It´s one-way communication all the way. Plus, the main character is customizable, but very neutral and bland. His personality is up to the player to decide. Which sucks a bit.

What I liked about Thief - TDP was basically everything. I loved it to death and still do, two and a half years later. It´s got everything: novel ideas, a superb story, tons of scary moments, a perfect learning curve. And briefings and cutscenes. Did I mention the briefings and cutscenes? Works of art. And then there´s Garrett himself... Never have I identified myself so perfectly with a main character in a computer game.
Thief II was really good too, and some of the missions are among my all-time favorites. Some of the briefings and cutscenes are truly superb, too. But it´s weaker than Thief - TDP in the story department and it offers too few scares.

I advise you to give SS2 and Thief II a try. I cannot guarantee that you´ll like either of the games, and you definitely will miss the conversations from DX, but if your taste is anything like mine, you will not look back...

Enjoy!




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T2x Plot Monkey

"A song of tough love for a generation whose eyes have moved fish-like to the sides of its head, forward vision usurped by a numb need to survive the now, side-placed eyes scanning for any garde of which to be avant."
-David Foster Wallace, "Westward the Course of Empire Takes its Way."

Agent Monkeysee on 18/4/2001 at 00:50

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You're playing w/fire ToolHead http://www.ttlg.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif!

sunburn -- if you're looking for something similar to DX then the Thief series is not for you. Thief is not a role-playing game, there is no explicit character development (although how you play Garrett does vary from person to person). However it is very tense, due to the fact that you're sneaking around in the dark and avoiding instead of confronting, and the stories in both games are excellent. There is little to no NPC interaction but that doesn't mean they're just backdrops to the game either. All of the AIs add a lot of personality to the games and you do do a lot of eavesdropping on conversations and reading private correspondences and what not. But none of them are crucial to the plot, they merely add flavor and atmosphere. Thief Gold (or Thief: The Dark Project, I'd get Gold if you buy them at all, xtra missions and bug fixes and stuff) has a little more hack-and-slash action, especially in the latter half of the game, while Thief II: The Metal Age sticks closer to it's "first-person sneaker" role Looking Glass Studios had originally intended for the series to be. IMO Thief II has better gameplay (if Thieving is what you're looking for in gameplay) while Thief Gold has better storytelling.

SS2 will provide you with more of an RPG experience but again, you are pretty much working alone in the game world. The premise of the game doesn't really allow for much character interaction, but you do build and shape your character how you see fit and the interface and feel is similar to DX.

Erkki on 19/4/2001 at 22:22

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Naartje, I did that http://www.ttlg.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif But why is that so bad? Reasons please?

Anyway, I actually got T: TDP first (borrowed from a friend), and I really loved it. Until I got to a long boring level involving zombies and some beasts and after that there was a really twisted wizards mansion or someting. And then I gave up. I liked Thief 2 much more.

I am planning to buy Thief Gold (and System Shock 2), though. Actually I wanted to buy them a few weeks ago, they were quite cheap. But the store had run out of copies (of both). So I bought The Longest Journey instead http://www.ttlg.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif
Ah, should have bought them eariler when the store had them, but I was saving to upgrade my PC.

Erkki

buglunch on 23/4/2001 at 21:31

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Get Thief Gold AND SS2 ASAP.When you're finished keep playing SS2 constantly and consider Thief 2. <IMG SRC="thumb.gif" border="0">