Sg3 on 20/3/2012 at 15:21
Quote Posted by 242
Internet is unrelated, it's just that people grow older.
That's part of it, yes, and perhaps a large part of it. I was nineteen, he was fifteen. But I've also observed the effect here with members who were in their thirties and forties when TTLG was created.
Sombras on 20/3/2012 at 17:04
Quote Posted by Sg3
That's part of it, yes, and perhaps a large part of it. I was nineteen, he was fifteen. But I've also observed the effect here with members who were in their thirties and forties when TTLG was created.
I think you're kinda on to something there.
Stitch on 21/3/2012 at 20:28
Quote Posted by Sg3
The whole "why is this place 'dying'" thing is, I think, ultimately a result of the TTLG people becoming disenchanted with the Internet itself.
This is, of course, wrong. The problem is actually that the internet has actually gotten a lot
better.(hi, gang!)
A good online forum hinges on two things: (1) a steady influx of interesting information to digest, and (2) a likable community in which to discuss said information.
On thing 1: it's almost quaint now, but there once was a time in which TTLG was my main source of new information that wasn't exactly news (although there was a fair amount of
that, too). Due to some TTLGers with ears slightly closer to the ground than my own, this forum alerted me to bands I might want to consider listening to, movies I might want to actually see, games I could conceivably play, and books I might want to read (even if this only ever amounted to a book or two, you fantasy-obsessed nerds).
Similarly, TTLG brought various entertaining and charming personal stories into my life that were then shaped by the collaborative energy of this community as a whole, which starts to touch on thing 2 but also exemplifies thing 1 in the way your tales and anecdotes would nestle down in my head and become a part of me.
But various specialized online sources of information have arisen these past twelve years to tackle these tasks better than TTLG ever could. Why wait for a music or movie or book or video game thread on TTLG when there are now myriad websites and blogs that cater to your taste specifically? Hell, you don't even have to crack open a browser these days, as our tablets and phones provide an endless stream of whatever the hell it is we're looking for.
And it kills me to type this, but why even take the time to read through personal stories on Comm Chat when a site like Reddit can provide more user generated content than you could possibly ever read, all mass sifted by other users to separate the chaff from the all-killer wheat? Christ, even the comments are sorted into pure gold, as long as you don't read far enough to break below the top tier.
Of course, you could argue that specialized apps and social news websites lack that personal touch, and you'd be right. RBJ's recommendation of the Black Keys oh so many years ago carried more weight than Pitchfork's Best New Music label ever could, and his story of a tragic evening with an abused sock is ultimately more memorable than the entirety of a "MOST HUMILIATING STORIES EVER" thread on Reddit.
Which brings us around to Thing 2. A good online community strikes a balance between being large enough to bring in a constant stream of new energy, and yet small enough to maintain a personal atmosphere of shooting the shit with some friends over drinks. If a community gets too large it starts to feel crowded and anonymous, and yet if it shrinks too much it risks stagnation and a slow collapse into nothing.
For many years, TTLG rode this fine line well. TTLG had a large amount of activity, and yet not to such a degree that it was difficult to keep on top of. TTLG had a propulsive, nervy energy that was easily identifiable as the collaborative product of its members, as the contributing member list was small enough to make knowing them all manageable.
TTLG's balancing act was ultimately untenable, though, as these new sites like Pitchfork or AV Club or Reddit have gathered steam and siphoned off topics of conversation. That wouldn't inherently be a problem with any healthy, robust community, except that with each passing year TTLG's center has grown weaker as we drift further away from the existence of the gaming company upon which this forum was built. Looking Glass was a fantastic gaming studio, but they didn't make enough of a splash to sustain a nostalgia-based community twelve years on, as it turns out.
And so we have a community that simply wasn't robust enough to handle these leeching outside forces, and we've suffered the expected exodus of members. But here's the thing: this isn't necessarily bad, once you take it for what it is. There should generally be enough interest in the Thief and System Shock titles to keep some version of TTLG going, assuming the brass stick around to prop it up, and Comm Chat can continue in its current minimal-contribution state indefinitely, because, well, why not?
But as we contrast what TTLG
is with what it
was, don't point the finger of blame at a disenchantment with the internet in general, which has never been more accessible and instantly gratifying.
Sombras on 21/3/2012 at 22:03
Quote Posted by Stitch
This is, of course, wrong. The problem is actually that the internet has actually gotten a lot
better.But as we contrast what TTLG
is with what it
was, don't point the finger of blame at a disenchantment with the internet in general, which has never been more accessible and instantly gratifying.
I think you're kinda on to something there. (hi back!)
Kolya on 21/3/2012 at 22:05
Could it be that TTLG used to be different things for different people?
Oh well. Go back to reddit and ride your golden hipster wave.
YOU BACKSTABBING WHORE.
june gloom on 21/3/2012 at 22:55
Stitch's post (hi stitch cuzzy bro <3) actually makes a lot of sense to me, and I'd like to reinforce what he's saying with a couple reposts. These two posts from the last couple "TTLG IS DEAD" threads are really all I need to say, aren't they?
Quote Posted by dethtoll
but anyway complaining that a forum, its membership and its atmosphere have changed is like bitching that the internet isn't like it was 13 years ago
yeah it might've been better back then (if you'll forgive a cliche that really only star wars fans and people who read somethingawful can say) but
unfortunately it's gone and you're never getting it back and it was never quite as good as you think it was, just like the 1950s
there really is no point in bitching and moaning about it, i mean there's nothing wrong with reminiscing but you are never going to see july 2004 ever again, you might as well accept it and move on
now if you'll excuse me i need to boot up my 28.8 modem and hit up a few BBSes to see the new quake 2 screenshots, hi-res 640x400!!!!!!111one
and then maybe i'll update my xoom site
Quote Posted by dethtoll
But see here, this phenomenon is not limited to TTLG alone. I've seen a very large number of platforms- Livejournal and various fora here and there, for starters- basically dry up in activity. It can be partially blamed on stuff like Facebook, Twitter and Tumblr, but I think it's also to do with a lot of the old-timers across the internet stepping out.
Think about it. We were the guys who were around before we had all this web 2.0, social media nonsense. All that's second nature for the younger kids who were raised on that stuff, but most of us original internauts can't be bothered. I only got Facebook, like, back in October, after resisting for years. (I'm actually kind of glad I did, ironically enough.)
We're old. We're tired. And a lot of us long-timers, we lose interest, get jobs, lives, spouses, prison time, whatever. We simply don't have the time or inclination. We've grown disinterested in the fascinating new world of the internet, and we're also disillusioned- we all thought it'd be like Gibson's cyberspace or the Matrix or some damn shit, and it turned out to be cat torture videos and bloodninja.
Once we had plenty of time, to stay up late reading some godawful webcomic and argue with people on the internet, but we can't take that as much anymore as we get older. So we emerge from our darkened basement rooms into groups of family and friends that barely recognize us anymore, shave off our Saddam spider hole beards, and go out and
do stuff.
In a way, this is just a side effect of the passage of time. Lots of forums have died quiet deaths as people lose interest in the forum's
raison d'etre and simply run out of things to discuss. It happens all the time, and has for years, since the days of Usenet. TTLG has just been delaying the inevitable for a very long time; the apparent die-down of activity in recent years can be blamed on the Thiefgenners staying in Thiefgen and everyone else no longer giving a damn.
Thanks to the rise of social media, forums are experiencing mass die-offs. Plainly speaking, forums and the like are an old-school method of communicating that is disappearing as we enter a transition phase- social media. The internet of ten years from now will probably be very different from what it is at this moment in time; and I've been an internaut long enough that the internet of today is no longer recognizable as what I spent the last decade and a half on.
The truth is, this phenomenon has been building up steam for a very long time. I guess you could say it started with Livejournal, but that's only sort of true. LJ actually ended up being a forum service for various fandoms and the associated crazy people who want to see Optimus Prime plowing Gandalf. It had huge, huge activity, but it didn't have the inherent inanity to it that later social media platforms do. (It was merely a different kind of inanity, but hell, we're on a forum dedicated to a company that hasn't existed in longer than some of our children have been
alive, so who are we to judge?) The real culprit, I think, is Myspace. That started the trend. Hell, even the word 'trend' is a trend these days.
But I'm getting a bit off-track. My main point is, the internet has changed, and so have we. We have different priorities, now.
Shug on 22/3/2012 at 03:33
dethtoll quoting his own essays - humane attempt to finish TTLG off?
Muzman on 22/3/2012 at 03:59
Yay, oldie fest! A... Ow, my knee.
As a small aside, it's funny to observe the inconvenience of convenience in a lot of these things Stitch is talking about. Not so much Reddit, but you do see people going to do things on blogs and Facebook these days that forums used to do. This is despite them generally being really really terrible for that sort of forum conversation. But people struggle along regardless, just because that's where everyone else is.
It's like a big crowd of people crammed into a smelly little alleyway listening to one guy's iPod when there's an empty free nightclub down the street playing the same tunes.
Mr.Duck on 22/3/2012 at 04:34
Hey Stitcheroo :)
I agree, things change, some for better, some not quite so. In the end your reasons for hanging out or leaving may change.
I came here for some info on Thief. Stayed for the community. Still do, but as Stitch pointed out, I get my info and lols usually from many other sitesbthat cater better to what I want.
Still, TTLG's a cool place in its own right despite the years and changes, both my own and the community's, even if I don't hang out all over the entire forums anymore.
june gloom on 22/3/2012 at 05:38
Quote Posted by Shug
dethtoll quoting his own essays - humane attempt to finish TTLG off?
Just no desire to retype all that out.
