I have a very good and thought-provoking question for FM authors - by SneakyGuy101
SneakyGuy101 on 24/5/2014 at 11:38
And my question is, is why do most of you make only Thief 2 missions? Don't we have NewDark now? So why don't any of you like making Thief 1/Gold missions anymore? It just makes me so mad and sad when I see that Thief 1 has only almost 200 missions and that Thief 2 has probably 700 and something missions and this is because it makes me think that no one even likes Thief 1/Gold anymore and because of the really small amount of fan missions for it compared to the very large amount of Thief 2 missions. So really now all I ask is a simple question and that is, why doesn't anyone like making Thief 1 missions anymore? Just take this into extreme thought and tell me your true answer/opinion on the matter because I'm asking a very legitimate question here and I really want to know what the problem with Thief 1/Gold is :confused:
DrK on 24/5/2014 at 12:22
Because I prefer Thief 2 to Thief gold. It's that simple.
Dale_ on 24/5/2014 at 12:23
I'm going to reply as something of a new-comer and ask an important question in return:
The way I understand it, Thief 1/Gold & 2 1.19 both run on the same engine and when Dromeding in Thief 2, it is easily possible to use objects/textures/AIs from Thief 1/Gold, right? Choosing to make FMs in Thief 2 would therefore be more like making the choice to go for the later version of the same system, which has more options, perhaps is more stable etc... Or at least that's the way I'd understand it.
So that brings me to the major question, when people prefer or request Thief 1 FMs, is it the atmosphere/schema/objects/AIs/absence of mechanists that they want to see? Or is it something else? Would it not be possible to make a Thief 2 FM in the spirit of Thief 1 (using T1's AIs, objects, textures, schemas)?
Yandros on 24/5/2014 at 14:57
The answer to why there are many more T2 missions than T1G missions is simple. For over a decade, before NewDark, the engines were different and those differences made T2 a superior choice. Now that T1G missions can be played through NewDark, and can be made with new Dromed, that difference is gone, but most authors don't care enough to switch probably. Besides (and to answer Dale_'s question), anyone who wants to make a T1-style FM can do so in T2 if they want to (same as with OldDark), it just requires conscious choices in the design and building with respect to lighting, textures, and style.
SneakyGuy101 on 24/5/2014 at 15:38
The thing is though, is that it just doesn't feel the same way when I'm working with Thief 2 and that's the sole purpose as to why I only make Thief Gold missions because it has so much more of a special feeling that Thief 2 doesn't have to offer :rolleyes:
zappenduster on 24/5/2014 at 16:12
Everything that is possible in Thief 1 can be realised under Thief 2 but not vice versa. ;)
Random_Taffer on 24/5/2014 at 16:26
Quote Posted by Yandros
The answer to why there are many more T2 missions than T1G missions is simple. For over a decade, before NewDark, the engines were different and those differences made T2 a superior choice. Now that T1G missions can be played through NewDark, and can be made with new Dromed, that difference is gone, but most authors don't care enough to switch probably. Besides (and to answer Dale_'s question), anyone who wants to make a T1-style FM can do so in T2 if they want to (same as with OldDark), it just requires conscious choices in the design and building with respect to lighting, textures, and style.
This.
Quote Posted by zappen
Everything that is possible in Thief 1 can be realised under Thief 2 but not vice versa. ;)
And this.
YcatX on 24/5/2014 at 17:51
LOL... You know there is a Thief version of Mines of Margorth out there somewhere. Viper liked it so much be bought me Thief2 so I would still build missions. My original Thief was bundled with a sound card. Thats how I got sucked into this crazy nuthaus.
Before NewDark I had to import all the parts of T1/Gold I liked (Burricks, Rat-beasts, and hammer zombies) and add them to the object hierarchy stored in my modified Bantar.gam. Once I started using that as a base, I couldn't look back or use anyone else's .gam because I would have to re-import all my custom mods.
Johnny01 on 27/5/2014 at 09:39
I would like to add that Thief 1 experiences like StinkyKitty's Widow's Ire are some of the most immersive and atmospheric FMs I've played recently. There's just somehow more of that dark, mysterious, lonely exploration into truly original environmental designs.
It's like Constantine's Mansion compared with the bank mission from T2. Technically the latter may have been more sound and the architecture more realistic, but that kind of takes away (for me that is) from the fantastical and slightly unsettling experience of it. I always had the same notion, that T2 could just do whatever T1 could, but after I played Widow's Ire, I seriously started to appreciate work done specifically for that game.
There were just many reasons, beside the obviously Thief 1-inspired arcitecture, many small factors, that seemed to contribute to this. Though I won't go into pinpointing them exactly.
I guess T2 missions these days just tend to feel more fluffed up in terms of production value (much like the modern trend in video games in general), as opposed to seeming more focused on creative atmospheric design and letting the player immerse his/herself into an exploratory journey through a more organic, dynamic-feeling world. It's hard to describe exactly for me now. It also doesn't help that I'm foggy from food-poisoning, haha. Though I suppose that's the main reason that I'm on these forums now (on a workday at least).
demagogue on 27/5/2014 at 12:14
Haha, didn't we have this debate back in '01?
Everything you can do in TG you can do in T2 and more, but not vice versa.
I'm fine with people making TG FMs if they want though. Because of that technical point, I think probably it's more for the record, kind of like I want to make an Atari 2600 and C64 game someday, not because I can do it better but because it's an Atari 2600 & C64, come on...
