I have a very good and thought-provoking question for FM authors

bjack on 28/5/2014 at 19:12

Quote Posted by demagogue

I'm fine with people making TG FMs if they want though...

But for very cheap fools like me, I cannot play T1 or TG. I don't have the disks. Sure I could probably get a set for $5+, but I keep stalling for some reason. For me, people making FMs in T2 is wonderful, since that is my only choice to play :cheeky:

Still, there are the few new TG and T1 FMs that come out from time to time. The authors seem to have a love for those versions and do it for the sport of it all. For me, it just makes me sad I cannot play their work, but for them, I guess it is the challenge and nostalgia of using the older code, or at least the overall older atmosphere.

The Watcher on 29/5/2014 at 09:51

Quote Posted by demagogue

Haha, didn't we have this debate back in '01?

And 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, ... in fact I don't actually think there has been a single year since T2 was released where this same debate hasn't come up, at least once. And it always ends up with the same polarised opinions it started with.

FireMage on 29/5/2014 at 10:39

Oops, wrong account :/

[personnal grunting time]--Thank you brother for having forgotten to disconnect me before replying... -_-#--[/personnal grunting time]

I can build for T1/TG or T2 with no problem ^^ Actually, it's just because I'l used to work with Thief 2, because before newdark, there were no unique palette for all textures, family texture are more beautiful, more polys for AIs in the RES. And many bugs fixed and params added in T2 Dromed.

Since NewDark, you can have T2 or TG, you can play all missions! ^^ You just need the missing objects, sounds and meshes that are not present in your RES file. ^^

Frère Staven on 29/5/2014 at 16:04

Don't worry SneakyGuy, there're still people who work on TG rather than T2 for FM making Me for example, I'm currently building my first FM with TG.
I think the simplest explanation is that I owned Thief 1 almost two years after its release, while I only acquired Thief 2 around 2008! So I obviously played T1 a lot more time than T2, and even had Deadly Shadows before T2.
But honestly, I don't know, it's true I feel T1 has a special atmosphere, with unique sounds, a unique feeling, and even unique creatures. Even if you can import everything for T2, I prefer playing with T1 game. Still, it has a darkest atmosphere, while I always felt T2 too Renaissance and too mechanical, while T1 sounds more medieval AND fantastical too. And really Skacky's missions beat everything!

Frère Staven on 29/5/2014 at 16:06

Damn, double post moreover -_-

Cavalorn on 30/5/2014 at 20:20

Here we go again...

Azaran on 30/5/2014 at 20:49

I would love to see more T1\G fm's. The first game has a grittiness and feel that T2 lacks. Granted, the latter has the upper hand in other graphics aspects (fogging, etc), but still it's missing something that T1 has.

Quote Posted by demagogue

Haha, didn't we have this debate back in '01?
Everything you can do in TG you can do in T2 and more, but not vice versa.
.

You can't bunnyhop in T2, and the contrasts and shadows are much more intense and pronounced in T1 than T2. Compare the Bonehoard in TG (right) and T2 (left)

Inline Image:

http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n495/Azaran/DromEd2014-05-3016-38-37-83_zpsa2b943bf.png

I have yet to see this contrast intensity emulated in T2 (maybe people don't like it because it's too dark? I love it personally)

FireMage on 31/5/2014 at 10:03

The darkness fact has an explaination. Just take a look at the options: In T1 the shadows were drawn by a "Gamma" channel. As all T1 players has surely noticed, if you set the gamma to max, you are always unable to see in the darkness, the shadows just became a bit green.

In T2, in the option, you can change the "Luminosity" Channel and not the "Gamma". And then, if you set it to max, shadows completely disapear.

I'm sure that difference of shadows is linked to that! ;)
If NewDark makers wish to create a new version, adding an option to make mapmakers and players able to play with Gamma or Luminosity, it will be perfect! ;)

Moreover, I don't know If people noticed it, but T2 is more colored and living than TG, in TG, we are in old dirty and frightening places. In T2, we see more mansion and fancy area. Then, it's logic to see the world with more light! :)

Yandros on 31/5/2014 at 14:09

Original T1 did not have colored lighting, T2 did. Now both can be played with NewDark which has 32bit colored lighting, but can still be used to make a mission with 16bit, monochrome ambient and object light.

ZylonBane on 31/5/2014 at 17:10

Quote Posted by FireMage

This paragraph is pure crazy talk. There is no such thing anywhere as a "gamma channel". T1 and T2 both use lightmaps to determine how fully lit every texel in a level is. T1 used 8-bit monochrome lightmaps, while T2 used 16-bit RGB lightmaps (meaning T2 actually had worse luma resolution than T1, at only 5 1/3 bits per channel.). NewDark, as noted, uses full 32-bit lightmaps, meaning it allows lightmaps that are as smooth as T1's while also being as colorful as T2's.