I have a very good and thought-provoking question for FM authors - by SneakyGuy101
The Watcher on 1/6/2014 at 11:45
To expand somewhat on what both Yandros and ZB said, the differences are not only down to lightmap depth, they are also a result of lightmap resolution and the calculations used to generate the lightmaps:
* TDP/TG uses 8 bit luminosity lightmaps with very low resolutions. This is why T1/TG lighting only changes how bright a texel is, without changing its colour, and why the lightmaps contain jagged edges on shadows and spot cones. It also uses a more simplistic algorithm when calculating the lightmaps that does not support quad lighting (so shadow edges are harsher), modifying the light falloff slope, or other improvements T2 added.
* T2 uses 16 bit RGB lightmaps at a higher resolution than TDP/TG; hence the coloured lights and smoother shadow transitions (although with more banding, because of the lower resolution per channel).
* NewDark uses 16, 32 or 64 bit RGB lightmaps at variable resolutions (potentially much higher or lower than T2), and its lightmap calculations allow you to modify shadow softness more precisely.
By messing with the lighting parameters for NewDark in normal T2 mode (lm32_params, set_lighting_scale, avoid quad lit on lights, etc) you could get pretty close to TDP/TG-style lighting.
ZylonBane on 1/6/2014 at 12:19
64-bit lightmaps? What?
The Watcher on 1/6/2014 at 12:25
From new_commands.txt:
set_lighting_depth : Set lighting bit depth (16, 32, 64 for 32-bit 2X)
That said, I may be misinterpreting it, and it may just be using 64 as a marker, I haven't checked the files directly.
[edit]So, look at the same mission lit in 32 and 32 2X, it looks like it's just generating 32 bit and the 64 is a marker; there's not enough difference in the file sizes to reflect a doubling of lightmap depth.[/edit]
ZylonBane on 2/6/2014 at 17:07
Yeah. It's called a parameter, not a marker, and as you quoted, the docs plainly say "64 for
32-bit 2X". No 64-bit lighting in Thief. That would be insane-- a resolution of over 2 million unique luminance levels per channel. The 64 is obviously just a bitfield value.
All 2X does is redistribute the lightmap gamut so instead of lights being limited to bringing a texture up to its full "unlit" brightness, they can go beyond that and completely white-out a surface. I guess this probably also means it composites lightmap textures using (
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb976070.aspx) 2X multiplicative blending instead of additive blending... hence the name.
meyou123 on 2/6/2014 at 17:35
Quote Posted by SneakyGuy101
And my question is, is why do most of you make only Thief 2 missions? Don't we have NewDark now? So why don't any of you like making Thief 1/Gold missions anymore? It just makes me so mad and sad when I see that Thief 1 has only almost 200 missions and that Thief 2 has probably 700 and something missions and this is because it makes me think that no one even likes Thief 1/Gold anymore and because of the really small amount of fan missions for it compared to the very large amount of Thief 2 missions. So really now all I ask is a simple question and that is, why doesn't anyone like making Thief 1 missions anymore? Just take this into extreme thought and tell me your true answer/opinion on the matter because I'm asking a very legitimate question here and I really want to know what the problem with Thief 1/Gold is :confused:
Maybe because most FM authors PREFER the Thief 2 engine to make FM's for! Fine with me, as I have the thief Gold disk but never ever put it on my computer....it is thief 2 all the way for me! I am glad they are making most FM's for Thief 2....gives me more FM's to choose from.
SneakyGuy101 on 4/6/2014 at 10:56
Quote Posted by meyou123
Maybe because most FM authors PREFER the Thief 2 engine to make FM's for! Fine with me, as I have the thief Gold disk but never ever put it on my computer....it is thief 2 all the way for me! I am glad they are making most FM's for Thief 2....gives me more FM's to choose from.
Well it makes me very upset and I also found your answer very offensive as you didn't even put into thought how good of a question I was asking. Seriously though, you could've been just a little bit nicer with your comment:grr:
nickie on 4/6/2014 at 15:19
It doesn't look to me as though meyou123 was being at all offensive. Perhaps you read more there than there is.
Cavalorn on 4/6/2014 at 21:49
Quote Posted by SneakyGuy101
Well it makes me very upset and I also found your answer very offensive as you didn't even put into thought how good of a question I was asking. Seriously though, you could've been just a little bit nicer with your comment:grr:
Indeed it was a really good question. Too bad it was asked a million times already.
Lucky Hand of Glory on 7/6/2014 at 03:04
Quote Posted by SneakyGuy101
... Thief 1 has only almost 200 missions... :
only 200
;)
Sycamoyr on 8/6/2014 at 17:31
Quote Posted by FireMage
Moreover, I don't know If people noticed it, but T2 is more colored and living than TG, in TG, we are in old dirty and frightening places. In T2, we see more mansion and fancy area. Then, it's logic to see the world with more light! :)
I would tend to agree with this, the setting of the missions does make a difference. There were very few missions in Thief 2 that harken back to the gory, dirty, dark atmosphere of Thief 1 OMs(such as "The Bonehoard" for example). Things felt more civilized in Thief 2; there was more of a structure to The Watch and even nods to wealthy families such as the Rothchilds and Bumblesons. In Thief 1/Gold, there were unsavory types to deal with such as Ramirez and the Thieves guild; in Thief 2, Garrett is the unsavory type (as well as the Pagans, prosecuted by the Watch and the Mechanists).
Basically my point is that the lighting, while it does have visible differences in the T1&T2 OMs, is something that can be manipulated for the desired effect in FMs. It's up to the mission author to capture that feeling.
