I just tried Deadly Shadows... - by Blastfrog
Blastfrog on 7/4/2014 at 05:13
...and I like it! Not quite as much as the first two, but there's definitely stuff here to be enjoyed. I'm quite new to the Thief series (only started playing it mid 2013), so my only experience so far was Gold, 2 and the original Dark Project (picked a copy up from ebay, as I was curious to see the differences and couldn't find it sold elsewhere), in that order.
I thought I was going to have a really bad experience from what I've heard (weakest of the trilogy, small maps, etc.), and based on my experience with Invisible War. I HATED Invisible War. Despite being mechanically more true to the first game than Human Revolution, I found it to be a very gruelling experience, I tried so hard to give the game a chance, but I hated every minute, and gave up at the Antarctic mission. Here though? I'm enjoying the content of the game so far (with exceptions).
The engine is still very bothersome, as I get caught on very small bits of geometry occasionally, and I think the player movement is very stiff, and find it annoying how it's tank-like when trying to strafe (moves forward a bit as it turns his feet to the right direction). With the patch and a solid state drive, loading isn't much of an issue.
The inn was bothersome, I wish it were a proper mission. Some missions felt too linear and small, like retrieving the Jacknall's paw. I find that I rarely need any items that I can't just find in the missions, and find it far too easy to hoard money that I'll never use. Despite my love for Bonehoard, I didn't enjoy the Abysmal Gale, as the zombies were much less avoidable. The engine decided to not spawn my puddles of holy water half the time. It's also quite irritating how it's thrown from the left, very disorienting. I wish it would target the center of my view.
The hub is a tad on the boring side, but it's unfortunately pretty integral to the design (before I played it, I thought that it'd be relatively easy to convert to the LGS formula). I found it pretty corny how the factions work. How the hell did they enchant my bow without ever touching it or even seeing me? And how do they instantly know what favors I've done without seeing me do them? It's also a major pain when killing the rust mites, it wakes the whole neighborhood up. I've just stopped killing them, because I don't want to deal with the city watch every single time.
Despite all the ranting above, I am enjoying myself for the most part. I quite liked the mission in St. Edgar's Church, decently sprawly for the limitations. I also really liked sneaking about in the forbidden library, reading stuff I'm not supposed to. I'm on day 4 at the moment, just started on the Kurshok mission, but took a break at the beginning.
downwinder on 7/4/2014 at 06:24
i pretty much agree with you
ValmontPhl on 7/4/2014 at 09:14
Been a while since I played thru DS, but my memory of it in general was that it gets better as it goes along; as if it ended just when it was getting really great. meh
IDK what we'd do without you passionate FM authors
twhalen2600 on 8/4/2014 at 00:47
It's been a while since I last played Deadly Shadows, but I think I agree with what you say. The faction system can become a mess. I remember the first time I played it Hammers, pagans, and guards were just running around killing each other by late game. The levels being too small and simple is perhaps the major flaw with DS.
One of my main problems with the game was the lack of story continuity from Thief 2. At the end of Thief 2, Garrett was wanting to learn more from the Keepers - he seemed changed. Now, at the beginning of T3, he's back to hating them, and doesn't care about their prophecies. But he's willing to steal two items for the Keepers for free, so that he can hear the prophecies he doesn't care about. The story does get really good, but that initial setup at the beginning never made sense to me.
And also, where did all the Mechanists' technology go? Surely the City wouldn't just have gotten rid of it all. A readable in DS' Hammer mission even references the Hammers' recognition of some good in Karras' creations. So, again, where is the Mechanist technology, or at least any remnants of it? (Was one of the machines in the Hammer mission referenced as being Mechanist technology? I can't remember.)
There needs to be a Thief 2.5 to fill in the gap between Thief 2's ending and Thief 3.
robthom on 9/4/2014 at 03:59
I'll probably have to give it another try one day.
The console-ization choices they made bothered me.
And its true that if I had never played the first two and judged it on its own merits alone that I wouldn't notice them so much.
But thats not the case.
And when someone uses the title of an established franchise to sell their game or movie as a sequel, prequel or remake to the built in audience of the previous version, thats a mostly false argument.
But it does share some blood with the originals, even if its the mildly tarded cousin.
And thats 10x the excuse for a little failure compared to what the Canadian dude-bro's did.
Psychomorph on 11/4/2014 at 02:30
TDS has it's weaknesses, but also its strengths.
The strengths for me is what I summed up on the Thiaf forums some time ago (a bit crappy English, I might have been a bit too excited to write properly :D):
Quote Posted by Psychomorph
Oh man, gotta write this. So I was sneaking through the overlook mansion and was in the main hall, hid in shadows as a guard approached. I was firmly hidden and he looked straight at me, as soon as he turned around a thunder stroke and a lightning lit out the very area I was in and I was like PHEW!
Moment's like this are really making the game.
Edit: Had to move through that area again, and again a guard was approaching. Having learned from before I did not remain in that spot, but quickly moved behind a pillar at the left, as soon as I was behind it another lightning struck and the area was lit again, this time the guard facing it and I wasn't there. Awesome...
Another moment I was picking a well lit chest and there was a glass door beside it and a guard patrolled in the hallway there. I began picking the lock but turned the head toward the door. It is a bit more difficult to pick the lock by sound alone without the visual indicator (the moving pin, note, I got no HUD elements for lockpicking), but as soon as I saw a hint of a shadow in the hallway I stopped and run back into a shadowy area, the moment the guard walked past the door. Another awesome moment. I love it if a game gives me realistic means to realistically deal with realistic situations.
Another moment is the wall flattening. God, I love wall flattening. One of those features to stand out when I played Thief 3 the first time. There was this cupboard and a light near it on the other side, so the other flat side of the cupboard had total shadow. I was moving there when I heard a guard approaching, nowhere to go I moved into that shadow deadzone, put my back to the wall, looked down and saw my right shoulder and torso still being lit, so I moved more to the left as far as I could until I was fully covered by the darkness (I looked down again to be sure if even my right arm was hidden). The guard walked by and didn't spot me (I wouldn't have, too).
Mind blowing. Everybody being opposed to a visible 3D body, because the original games didn't have this, have no idea what they're talking about.
Quote Posted by Psychomorph
Another excellent example of the awesome AI.
A guy saw something. Now, when I'm spotted the game ends, but he didn't really saw me as such, probably just a shadow figure, got scared and run out the room yelling for help. I run out the room and hid in a small storeroom in the hallway. Hiding there I heard hectic footsteps and saw two guys with drawn swords rushing by.
A housekeeper girl walked slowly after the men, looking where they run to, as if like she was curious rather than terrified. This is where I made a move and accidentally touched a stack of crates with my left shoulder and made a tiny noise, right where she was walking by the storeroom. She stopped and instantly looked inside the storeroom (at me, where the sound came from, was too dark inside though), saying with a scared voice: "What was that, someone there?". She made few steps inside the dark storeroom, than decided to move back and went to the opposite side. They actually open doors to check inside rooms when searching for intruders. So she looked into the room on the other side of the hallway and I heard the distant sounds of the guards searching the room where I was "seen" (they yelled and cursed). I took the chance and run out of the storage room into the atrium.
In the atrium two guards kept patrolling and the lightning strikes lit the area out, I was hiding behind the pillars (remained in shadow) while they were facing my direction, went by a painting which I took and hid behind an opening in the wall (with a table in it) while a guard walked by the very moment another lightning hit the sky and the entire area where I've been a second ago, and the guard walked by, was lit bright out.
Holy crap, Thief 3 may suck, but the AI is brilliant. Exceeds everything you have in the original games. The guys responsible for the AI deserve a medal.
ClashWho on 11/4/2014 at 15:51
Nice to see some praise for Deadly Shadows. I like it, too.
Mr.Math on 13/4/2014 at 07:50
With Sneaky update and the mod which merges the missions into whole, TDS is much better. Sadly, the biggest problem of the game, size of the missions, is still there. While it is great you can play them as a whole now, they are still way smaller in size and expanse than most of TDP/TMA. You can see it especially in those various underground pagan missions, which are supposed to be successors to Trail of Blood/Lost city, which were vast in size. Especially bothered me the missions where you are to steal the Paw. You jump into the well on the street and right there are 2 brigands talking about being lost, while in the next corridor are already patrolling pagans of their very secret, hidden establishment. Something, that would in TDP lasts hour of wandering and exploring was included in the first room. This was probably the most frustrating surprise of the game, after pretty decent first 2 missions. But than the Hammer cathedral or the museum were as great as any of their TDP/TMA predecessors in both size/design and content.
ZIGS on 20/4/2014 at 01:54
What's that mod that merges the missions into a whole?
