voodoo47 on 25/4/2015 at 13:47
one more reason to NOT use darkloader anymore. seriously people, diskettes can also be fun in a way, yet you don't try to ram them into your newest gaming pc.
Dev_Anj on 25/4/2015 at 13:59
That's certainly not my experience as I've not activated FMSel for Thief: Gold and Thief 2. What reasons are there not to use Darkloader? I find it more than adequate for launching FMs.
voodoo47 on 25/4/2015 at 14:33
if I remember correctly, it copies things around to activate FMs. that doesn't sound healthy, and will also take a while with really big FMs. I think it also ignores resource paths/modpaths, meaning whatever fixed resources I add to TFix, it won't really matter (as far as FMs are concerned), as darkloader will just skip them like they were never there. not quite sure how does it react to newmods such as EP2 and NecroAge (badly, I'd guess). would probably find more evil should I attempt to dissect the loader completely.
to make it short, the old loader is just like ddfix - very useful at one point, but that time is long gone, and now that we have better alternatives, it shouldn't really be used unless you need something very specific (its win9x compatibility, for example).
Dev_Anj on 25/4/2015 at 14:36
Quote Posted by voodoo47
] I think it also ignores resource paths/modpaths, meaning whatever fixed resources I add to TFix, it won't really matter (as far as FMs are concerned), as darkloader will just skip them like they were never there. would probably find more evil should I attempt to dissect the loader completely.
I have never had a problem with this. If I applied a texture pack, Darkloader can apply it just fine to FMs. Same with custom objects applied to the main game too. Or do you mean something else?
voodoo47 on 25/4/2015 at 14:54
I'm very sure it's skipping the TFix Patches folder (again, would have to dive deep to find out what exactly is going on under the hood, but I have better things to do), this breaks FMs that use Constantine's sword as their default sword. the latest TFix actually keeps an extra gamesys copy with the new Consword removed in the root to avoid the problem - but that is as far as I'll go with darkloader fixes/compatibility. anyone asking about TFix and darkloader will only get one answer - use FMselect, or you are on your own. it took me years to get the all the TFix gears as oiled as they are now - the drawback of this is that anything that does not belong into the mechanism will inevitably cause problems. I certainly can't stop anyone who is insisting on driving a (monkey) wrench right in, but I don't want to hear any complaints afterwards. same goes for the (now included) legacy executables - they are now in as I have found an easy way of making it work, but they are still completely unsupported - if they kidnap your dog and eat your cat, well, it's your fault for using them.
bjack on 25/4/2015 at 15:10
Are people trying to use the same FMSelector for all games? Why go through that head ache?
I installed T2 in its own folder with new dark and place T2 FMs in a separate folder. I've even got an unpatched T2 installation just in case an old FM comes up that will not play with new dark.
I also have TGold installed in a completely different folder with new dark and use the separate FM selector in that folder. The T1/Gold FMs are in a separate folder too.
By doing this, having everything separated, I have no "cross talk" issues. I can futz around with T2 or T1 separately.
The only issues I am having (other than my old system being slow) is with some older FMs (mostly TGold and T1) not playing well with new dark. For instance, Ranstall Keep starts out with missing furniture (no bed or table). Otherwise, no worries.
I just don't get how some people have to add files and mess around with configs, unless they are trying to use some wiz-bang custom textures or whatnot. :cheeky:
Ricebug on 26/4/2015 at 01:26
Except for the occasional T2 mission showing up as a T1, I've never had an issue with DarkLoader. Every FM I've played has been through DL. It's not that I don't like FMSel, I'm an adherent to the old bromide, if it aint broke, don't taff with it.
FMSel's unpacking of FMs into dedicated folders doesn't appeal to someone with limited hard drive space. Seriously, after you've played a mission, why would you want to keep it unzipped and taking up a lot of space on the ol' driver-oonie?
R Soul on 26/4/2015 at 01:46
You can right click in FMSel and select Uninstall. It'll give you the option of backing up savegames and screenshots. And FMSel supports FMs in 7z format, which will save you hard drive space.
I can't imagine someone needing to have multiple FMs 'ready' at the same time, but it's useful for mission authors who want to check another mission.
downwinder on 26/4/2015 at 03:04
my advice to anyone is playing t1/tg fan missions on fm selector from the thief 1 main game folder is your best bet
snobel on 26/4/2015 at 13:19
Some of the confusion probably comes from FMSel not being a separate exe file like Darkloader, but a DLL which is loaded and launched by the game. So if FMSel is enabled in cam_mod.ini Darkloader will launch the game, which in turn will launch FMSel.
Better to leave cam_mod.ini alone and instead copy the desktop icon, add " -fm" to the target line and use that to launch FMSel. That way it can co-exist with Darkloader, as long as the original game is restored before using FMSel.
@voodoo: How about letting TFix make such an icon by default, so that FMSel is readily available after installation?
Quote Posted by Albert
The fact that Darkloader has a more end-user friendly reading format for FMs (something the FMSel creator(s) didn't bother to implement for some reason), and allows one to read included text files and specs for individual FMs, has always made it great to use. [...] I totally understand if people still prefer using Darkloader as opposed to FMSel, as FMSel is sorely lacking in vital FM browsing features.
What exactly are you missing? FMSel provides access to the text files it finds as well. (View info file, View summary.)
Quote:
I also remember enjoying having access to all the Dark engine games w/ Darkloader, which is something FMSel also unfortunately lacks.
I've never played SS2 FMs but I'm pretty sure FMSel supports them. (I remember seeing SS2 specific stuff in the code.)
Quote:
However, FMSel and its multi-installation format is just an overall positive for me personally as I like having a few FMs installed at once, and I never enjoyed having to unload and load other FMs and OMs with Darkloader. Not to mention, there were times when I would risk ruining game files with this process, but that was limited to just a few occasions. It still worried me though, and FMSel pretty much ended such fears with its multi-installation support.
Yes, the FMSel way is much cleaner, something the user will not notice until Darkloader gets out of sync. Plus you get the same FM loader interface for all three Thiefs and SS2 (presumably).
