FireMage on 8/12/2015 at 21:57
My greatest question is: Are the mages and the precussors the same civilization?
Because the both trust in the elements and the both have an oriental style. What do you think about it?
Purgator on 8/12/2015 at 21:58
Quote Posted by downwinder
i would also think each class in game probably had there own gods,hammers=trickster,mechs=master builder,pagans=the hag/etc
Sorry Sperry, my post was in defence of downwinder for the above post. He was listing the Anti Gods (from what I gathered) of the various factions in Thief, their collective "Old Gods" as it were.
Tannar on 8/12/2015 at 22:03
Quote Posted by FireMage
My greatest question is: Are the mages and the precussors the same civilization?
Because the both trust in the elements and the both have an oriental style. What do you think about it?
I would say no. But that doesn't mean the mages might not be descendants of the precursors. Personally, I doubt this, but I can't remember anything from canon that would rule it out.
Squadarofl on 8/12/2015 at 22:35
Don't take my answer too seriously, it's a sort of fan-fiction lore which was created by Skacky, Firemage and I for our future fan missions and all
As the hammerite religion was growing, the old gods were often demonised, simply forgotten or even "absorbed" by the new monotheistic religion, which is why nobody in the City hold paganism in high regards. Anyway, what are those gods ? Divine entities or very powerful beings ? The Trickster and Viktoria were mortals so I believe the old gods were just mighty pagan warlords, unknown beasts or strong magic users whoses legends were passed by oral traditions by pagan druids and deformed by the time, strange poetic rhymes or even lies.
As Firemage said, the Hammerite religion is worshiping the Master Builder which was simply a man that came for a very far land to teach the savages pagans how to construct better houses and make better weapons, but by the time this fact was "forgotten" by his disciples who saw a chance to be the ones who talked to a god and to create an entire empire based on that. The master Builder is not the almighty demiurge the hammerites are trying to make us believe!
But does that mean no gods exists in the Thief World ? Let's look at the egregores; for those who don't know, it's an occult concept about creating entities by simply believe in them. See where I'm getting ? With years and years of worshiping, some of theses 'gods' were created!
For the relation between Precursor and the Hand Brotherhood, I have a very simple explanation for that. The Hand Brotherhood are the descendant of the precursors, and Karath-Din was just one of the many cities from the long forgotten empire of the precursors! Which is why they knew about the location of the fabled lost city.
Also let's not forget this very creepy but interesting quote from the haunts
Hh1a1__2.wav: We suffer the days of the centuries of leaden sordid gods.
Purgator on 8/12/2015 at 23:20
The Precursors seem to represent a kind of synergy between the disparate elements of nature and technology. The Hammerite and Pagan sects represent a conscious separation of this once harmonious arrangement. The Mages represent balance, respecting the separate elements of nature. The Pagans have nature personified in the Trickster, he has dominion over the elements. The Hammers have The Master Builder, representing Man's triumph over nature, a personification of His ingenuity and guile.
The question is, did these factions exist before the Precursor civilisation? Do the various factions represent a reversion to the "Old Gods" after the fall of the Precursors?
Karath-din succumbed to natural disaster. The inhabitants may have well taken sides after this event, those who accepted nature's fury and those who rejected nature and vowed to build bigger and better edifices in defiance. Hmmm.
FireMage on 8/12/2015 at 23:50
According to Karras, the current city's civilization is different to precurssors.
The pagans/hammerites may come from the same people which is not descendant to precurssors.
Perhaps just some native times before.
As we can see in the maw of chaos, pagans creatures come from another world. So Constantine is maybe just a powerful creature that feel and understand perfectly the magy of the elements that gave him access to the City World. Because humans where just simple primitive person they surely though the trickster was a god. But as usual some people are fed up when the same guy is ruling the world and then came the Builder, a mere mortal who was smarter than the others and built a city.
There is although something related to glyphs and the Eye. The keepers knows the lost city to much that make me think that this place is surely where the glyphs and the Eye were create. I even think that the Eye is a powerful tool that was used to create glyphs that explain why it is an element to activate the Final Glyph and why it causes so much disaster around it. Perhaps what happened to Karath-Dinn was what it could happen to the city if the Trickster's ritual was completed. Then the keepers were probably not the keeper of the balance but an order created to keep the Eye and it powers?
Then we could think that Keepers as Mages are both descendants of the precussors. While mages are preserving the balance among elements, keepers are preserving the balance among glyphs.
Hey don't forget that T3 show us that Pagans and Hammerites are using glyphs for their spells! They just don't call them glyphs!
But this is just my own Theory and I could be wrong at some points. But I like it anyway! :p
Gloria Creep on 9/12/2015 at 00:23
I don't CARE! Let's have a new FM!!!!
Dahenjo on 9/12/2015 at 02:09
I know! It should be set 400 years in the past, in the New Quarter, a thriving hunter-gatherer settlement back then, with Garrett in a full-length studded spandex loincloth, but it's not the same Garrett, along with his BFF the flintknapper, Basso, but it's not the same Basso, and there's this young foolish spoiled girl.....
downwinder on 9/12/2015 at 03:09
ohh yeah pagans warship the lady of the green's
Sperry on 9/12/2015 at 21:30
Seems to me there are plenty of good ideas here.
I was initially more interested in what these older gods could have been, rather than the shift from old to new gods.
If the Trickster is the old God of trickery, why not have other old gods corresponding to other attributes corresponding to the Thief universe?
Either way, I like the idea that the theme stay as broad as possible. As long as the mission relates to the title of the contest (ie "The Old Gods") in some way, it may be considered a valid entry.
