BlackCapedManX on 3/2/2002 at 00:26
Alright, my bad with the ought six part, my understanding was that they actually could get that close (after all, they do have two decimal places in exactness with mm in bullet caibres.) Though the ought six makes a hell of a lot more sense. And at least i was right about the use of 30mm, in miniguns, i just dont know what they were used on (being more of a specialist in small arms.) though any of you who have seen Black Hawk Down will remeber the scene with the two 'chopers mowing down troups at night on the roof, the sound those things make is awesome (assuming thats the actual sound, i've never heard one.) True a calibre like 5.56mm (used in M-16s and a huge variety of assult rifles, included among them the test versions of the OICW) would have made more sense in the assult rifle, but possibly in the future they have recoil supressents to combat the recoil of continous fire of 7.62, then again that would also explain the insane amount that the gun travels up when you fire it at zero rifle skill. I still say that a .50 calibre would be the best way to go for a sniper rifle.... hehehe.
Cyborg on 3/2/2002 at 10:34
About that .50 cal. Sniper rifles like Barret uses it and Desert Eagle as well. I think some Heavy Machineguns use it...
I dont remember was it 11,7mm or 12,7 mm but one of those.
That 10mm pistol is a little weird thing in DeusEx. It feels like a cannon with huge amounts of recoil.
Phydeaux on 3/2/2002 at 13:33
The "calibre" of a bullet only refers to the diameter of its base. (and therefor the inside diameter of the barell). The calibre alone tells you only its diameter, not its length, weight, or amunition type. Saying .50 calibre means nothing. Saying .50AE does, because that's the designation used for Desert Eagle .50 rounds.
Handguns (and submachineguns which typically use the same rounds) rounds (including the bullet and cartrige) are typically pretty short, containing relativly weaker charge. This is becase a more powerful round would provide a ton of kick, which limits accuracy when held at arms length, either1 hand or both arms bracing. Especially when firing repeatedly, even moreso with automatic fire. The bullet itself is short. Pistoles and submachine guns meant for stopping power and impact, not penetrating heavy armor.
Rifle rounds have much larger cartriges and contain a much more powerful charge. Kick is better controled because of they way rifles are held (with the shoulder and whole body bracing). The bullet itself is longer compared to a handgun round, for additional weight (power) and stablity. Both these factors combined result in higher penetration and range. 5.56mm rounds are about half the calibre of a .50. Getting hit by one won't knock you back 10 feet and put a whole the size of a baseball in your back like a Desert Eagle .50 will, but it will go through you, and the wall beind you, and the wall behind that...
Now a .50 calibre rifle round? That's gotta hurt.
BlackCapedManX on 5/2/2002 at 03:02
Actually I ment to specify, I did mean the .50 Browing round, and anti-armour (tank) round for rifles, yes it will go through many.... many... walls. I think it was originally used in Browning machine guns, mounted guns of course. I personally have a .50 calibre Remington UMC rifle round casing sitting on the desk right next to me. And gods is it big! Heheheheh, the portion just for propelent is a little more than 3 inches long and about 3/4 inch in diameter.... big....
Weirdgnome on 18/2/2002 at 18:23
On gun realism.
(I dont think realism counts if it doesnt kill the illusion for u, heres what kills mine.)
U cannot silence super-sonic weapons. The crack when the bullet passes
the sound barrier would still be heard, albeit harder to locate than the discharge.
That means no silenced sniper or assault-rifles.
Add a SMG firing pistol ammo, at higher velocity due to longer barrel.
If u silence it damage will drop to pistol. Shorter range than rifles, less accurate, higher ROF. This is the close-combat sprayer.
The assault rifle is the seriously weird gun in DX1.
Less damage than a pistol? U cant silence it? 7.62mm ammo? Come on!
Todays assault rifles are moving towards lower calibres (4.x, even 3.x mm).
This is to allow larger ammo loads, and since most infantry combat takes place under 250 metres or so anyway.
Next gen AR's will surely be bulpup rifles to get more barrel in shorter designs.
Using small-calibre, high-velocity rounds with hard high-density bullets for penetration. Instable to "flip" in the body, thereby doing more damage. Caseless rounds for reliability and even larger mags. Optical sights added. Read FA-MAS or IW-85(?).
The problem is balancing such a gun. DX1 did a good job of making u use more than the last gun u found.
Making it non-silencable is one step. And let the recoil be mean, especially when fired on the move. Also cosider to remove the full auto and make it semi with the choice of 3 round burst mode. Infantrymen shoot way to much anyway...
If this isnt enough i suggest that longer/heavier weapons make u turn, and thus aim, slower. This would matter more the closer u are, since a enemy covering let say 10 meters will move a considerably larger arc up close than far away.
This way u would favour shorter/lighter wepons up close.
Oh, and just let ppl map what they want to zoom. Theyll know.
Howsat?
Phydeaux on 18/2/2002 at 21:28
That's annoyed me as well. Simply adding a supresser (silencer is misleading) slows the velocity of the bullet. But for supression that's not enough; if a bullet is supersonic, it makes its own sonic boom, so subsonic amunition is required (except the HK MP5SD, which slows supersonic to subsonic internally). A 9mm gun is basically turned into a .380 (not very powerful). The Russians actually developed a bullet that did not need a supresser which was kind of nifty, but its power wasn't any different then a supressed gun anyway.
Adding a supresser to a rufle would be basically pointless; might as well use the supressed pistol (damage wise anyway, rifle still is more accurate).
And you can put a silencer in the Assault Rifle in Deus Ex. Combined with level 4 targeting augmentation, this is my favorite weapon (and extremely deadly).
tripwood on 1/3/2002 at 22:50
i just wish it would have been possible to put a silencer on the Pistol.. it's practicly the only fps where you don't get a silenced pistol. i know therE's the auto silenced mini machine gun thing, but it packs no punch at all.
Phydeaux on 2/3/2002 at 11:19
Quote:
i just wish it would have been possible to put a silencer on the Pistol.. it's practicly the only fps where you don't get a silenced pistol.
You mean other then the Stealth Pistol?:confused:
tripwood on 3/3/2002 at 12:39
yeah. just a regular silenced basic pistol, the one who's always there from the start. good ole sparky.
Stryyder on 6/3/2002 at 18:11
You are correct a truly 'silenced' weapon would only work with subsonic ammo and is good only for limited ranges.
Suppressors can be used on weapons with regular ammo this slows the bullet down and reduces range but it also will cause the sound to be less directional. You will hear the shot but not readily be able to ascertain where it came from. With good cover this is a serious advantage.
