Dev_Anj on 30/1/2015 at 00:21
They aren't re writing the story, they're just adding new world building detail like object placement, some datacubes or books lying around, some new emails to read etc.
Yes, many decisions taken by LGS and Ion Storm were deliberate, like most decisions taken by artists. That doesn't mean they can't be criticized, and quite a few people here criticize things like Running Interference, Casing the Joint, Masks, Sabotage at Soulforge, Thieves Guild, hell even missions like Down in the Bonehoard. If an artist thinks that there are changes which can fix the flaws in the design, I don't see why they shouldn't implement it. Okay, maybe them calling their project an improvement is wrong, but I don't see them doing anything wrong with their re imagining of the original levels.
Sycamoyr on 30/1/2015 at 00:56
Quote Posted by klatremus
I've thought about something like this for years. Get a few of the best authors together. Work on one mission at a time. Re-release with all/most of the original content intact, but updated textures, eye-candy, objects, side-quests, objectives, loot, enemies, difficulty levels, etc.
All this business and misunderstanding about difficulty levels and marble floors aside... I really WOULD like to play Thief 1/gold and Thief 2 with more objectives. Being a fan of the original design, pretty much in its entirety, I would have liked to have spent more time in each mission (with a purpose of course). For example, I loved the ambiance in certain places so much (
The Lost City, Return to the Cathedral, Escape!, Trail of Blood, & Precious Cargo just to name a handful) that the games keep me coming back for more even after 15+ years of playing them. Side quests are very enjoyable for me; I think about Sensut's "Exile (Being Thief 2)" and how much fun I had with all the side-quests in that diamond of a mission.
All the negativity pretty much ensures no one will attempt such an undertaking, but it's nice to dream about a "fuller" Thief experience.
Judith on 30/1/2015 at 11:19
Quote Posted by Dev_Anj
If an artist thinks that there are changes which can fix the flaws in the design, I don't see why they shouldn't implement it.
In somebody else's work? Really?
Dev_Anj on 30/1/2015 at 13:26
Why not? After all, neither LGS nor Ion Storm ever said that none can edit their work, else they would not make their levels open in Dromed or the Unreal Editor.
Judith on 30/1/2015 at 14:21
Oh dear... :erm: I have to assume you're very young, because it's hard for me to imagine that any adult would have a problem with comprehending that... Fiddling with somebody else's work, just because you think you know better, is a sign of huge disrespect. It's not up to you to decide, even renown developers don't do that. It's almost trolling and frankly, not a really creative task to begin with. In short, nobody does that, neither in music, nor in painting, photography etc. And, since like 2000s map files and resources became locked or put in packages. Now I understand it's more than just compression reasons...
The game as a work represents certain period of time, it's a reflection of dev's skills at the time, and the state of technology. As that it is a type of testimony, and as such it's closed, even if it has editor and the source files available. If you want to pay respect, you can carefully preserve that, making it compatible for subsequent platforms and generations of players, or you can take the theme, the story, the layout etc. and use it as a source of inspiration to make something else. To create a discussion, to answer the problems in a different way, etc. This is how you show respect and your own skill.
Dev_Anj on 30/1/2015 at 14:31
Actually there are many remixes in photography, music etc. and there are quite a few people here who use the original missions as a base for new missions. Or are you saying the very act of remixing is wrong?
Judith on 30/1/2015 at 14:35
I am saying you don't see a difference between a remix and making changes to sb's work that are suitable to you. That's not a remix.
Dev_Anj on 30/1/2015 at 14:37
Sounds more like semantics to me. Why would people ever make remixes of others' works if they felt it would be seen as an inferior shadow of the original?
Judith on 30/1/2015 at 14:50
They wouldn't and they don't. Remixes are creative dialogues about themes, problems, arrangements of parts etc. – in search of a new quality. Not 'fixing' the work's content to adhere to viewpoint of a person or a group. That's simply rude and lazy (even if it takes a lot of time). It's really that hard to understand?
Lady Rowena on 30/1/2015 at 15:04
Quote Posted by Judith
The game as a work represents certain period of time, it's a reflection of dev's skills at the time, and the state of technology. As that it is a type of testimony, and as such it's closed, even if it has editor and the source files available. If you want to pay respect, you can carefully preserve that, making it compatible for subsequent platforms and generations of players, or you can take the theme, the story, the layout etc. and use it as a source of inspiration to make something else. To create a discussion, to answer the problems in a different way, etc. This is how you show respect and your own skill.
I couldn't find better words, that's exactly my thought.
Why do you have this urge to touch milestones like Thief and Deux Ex? It would be way better to spend your time and efforts in making something different, a new campaign, or a sequel. as other have said.
