Dev_Anj on 30/1/2015 at 16:54
I'm pretty sure that people improved on the Wright Brothers' designs to get better and better aircraft. That's how we ended up with the Boeing aircraft of today. Because the original design of the Wright Brothers' aircraft was bad for anything more than a short glide through the air. That sort of improvement can be quantified, unlike creative works.
Judith on 30/1/2015 at 17:07
Quote:
They clearly think that remaking the Paris metro in the style of actual Parisian metro stations would be interesting, so they're doing that. Is it wrong?
Inline Image:
https://31.media.tumblr.com/acb3d3bbe31e754aa1ababa315c26b72/tumblr_mswmovcBjf1sytwjuo1_500.gifIt applies to every discipline ;) So basically they're 'enhancing' the game as they see fit. It might be interesting, for them. For the players it would be more interesting to see what original devs would do, as they have the access to all source materials, design docs, concept art, etc.
Dev_Anj on 30/1/2015 at 17:09
Quote Posted by Judith
For the players it would be more interesting to see what original devs would do, as they have the access to all source materials, design docs, concept art, etc.
Well, but you can't speak in favour of all of them, and there are quite a few players interested in the mod, going by the comments. Also, they aren't sending the original to a dark hole or something, hell you need the original game to play the mod anyway.
Also, I always felt that Thief: Gold, Thief 2, Deus Ex and other LGS or "LGS like" titles were bent more towards simulations than towards video game systems.
Sycamoyr on 30/1/2015 at 23:18
Quote Posted by Sycamoyr
I really WOULD like to play Thief 1/gold and Thief 2 with more objectives. Being a fan of the original design, pretty much in its entirety, I would have liked to have spent more time in each mission (with a purpose of course).
To expand on my response a bit more...
If you could add extra objective(s) to any or all of the original missions, what would they be and why? Would they add more intrigue, stealth challenge, comedy, etc?
FireMage on 1/2/2015 at 12:37
IMO doing some changes in OM could be interesting to give them a new youth BUT only in matter of doing extended version of them with more event, more conversation (you can find many unused conversation that may be present in the mission), fix some bugs, add new loot and secrets and Garrett lines.
For exemple, as you can find it in the ressources. Normaly in TheSword mission, you are supposed to find the Real Constantine Sword among many fake Sword.
That may be interesting to add that.
It may be fun to do that they are more things to explore in the City in Assassin. And many thing like this could be done.
So the first time I saw this topic, I wondered "why not?" that's not a bad idea.
But more the debate is progressing more I can see that you are asking for REBUILDING COMPLETELY THE GAME AND THE ENGINE!! This is madness dude! And I totaly disagree with such thing! You can say that some place seems to be empty... Okay! But saying that the engine is bad, gaphics are bad, missions are bad I'll say: NO! That will be not remixing but rebuilding.
There were a time I sugested for fun to rebuild some OM for fun in a contest but the idea has been rejected and I understand now why people have disagreed and I understand and agree with them now. Thief is a fantasy universe. You can redo DX mission because the scene takes place in our world but not Thief.
Thief is a city that does not exist and then if some buildings seems weird we have not a word to add. This is the dev's imagination and the city must look like the city.
Bafford is a testing mission according to the many demo shown in this manor from LGS team. That's why it does not look like something realistic and secretful.
But remember one thing: Bafford's mansion is the FIRST mission just after the training. For someone who play Thief for the first time we cannot imagine a mission better than this little manor to intitate yourself. ^^
JarlFrank on 1/2/2015 at 17:54
Quote Posted by Judith
Oh dear... :erm: I have to assume you're very young, because it's hard for me to imagine that any adult would have a problem with comprehending that... Fiddling with somebody else's work, just because you think you know better, is a sign of huge disrespect. It's not up to you to decide, even renown developers don't do that. It's almost trolling and frankly, not a really creative task to begin with. In short, nobody does that, neither in music, nor in painting, photography etc. And, since like 2000s map files and resources became locked or put in packages. Now I understand it's more than just compression reasons...
The game as a work represents certain period of time, it's a reflection of dev's skills at the time, and the state of technology. As that it is a type of testimony, and as such it's closed, even if it has editor and the source files available. If you want to pay respect, you can carefully preserve that, making it compatible for subsequent platforms and generations of players, or you can take the theme, the story, the layout etc. and use it as a source of inspiration to make something else. To create a discussion, to answer the problems in a different way, etc. This is how you show respect and your own skill.
Well, there are things like bands making covers of songs they like, modders re-making a game on a different engine (Ultima V Lazarus project comes to mind), or remakes of movies (which often suck, but eh).
Taking someone's original mission and expanding it is more of a show of respect than a sign of disrespect, as long as you don't carry an attitude of "it sucks and I can improve it". If you approach it with the intent to shape it according to your own vision, I don't see the problem with it. It would be like an expansion than an improvement, and often have I thought, when playing through some of the original city missions, how great these would be as a base for larger city missions, with more buildings being accessible and more goals for the player to achieve.
Dev_Anj on 1/2/2015 at 18:12
Hi there Jarlfrank! *waves*
Judith really has a problem with the attitude, and I do agree with him to an extent. I think Deus Ex: Revision will turn out great, but he has a point in telling that by saying they've "improved" the design, they're showing disrespect to the original work, or arrogance about their work.
Briareos H on 1/2/2015 at 19:03
Neither of which terribly matters when it's for the sake of art.
Fallen+Keeper on 10/2/2015 at 23:44
TFix + Gecko's HD mod is the only "remaster" I need.
If there was something similar to Revision going on it would have my blessings, but there isn't and most probably will never be.
DarkMax on 11/2/2015 at 00:37
Imagine you have a ruined and hardly habitable building that is (or was) still a beautiful architecture work. You can do two things:
- Demolish it and build a new one in its place.
- Remodel it in a way that it is still the same but with some improvements here and there.
I think Dev_Anj is talking about the second and I don't see why that's not a good idea or a disrespect to the original works. I saw and played a lot of FMs based on the original missions and no one said anything (And even if it's an FM with another story, it's still touching somebody else's work).
