If there´s a Baron then there´s a king ?

mrle01 on 13/3/2009 at 15:01

To me it always seemed like The City was part of something like 19th centruy Germany. A loose union of bigger states (Prussia), smaller states (Bavaria, Baden, etc.), tiny states and some free cities (Lübeck, Frankfurt, Bremen and Hamburg). The city could have been like one of those free cities or tiny states. Therefore the king wouldn't have any right over The City.

Since I'm not German I hope this is right.

Jah on 13/3/2009 at 15:31

Quote Posted by Brethren

Also, there's a convo in Ambush talking about The Baron returning with "battlefield right behind him" - does this indicate that he actually goes into battle with his troops? That would seem unlikely for the highest ranking official of The City.

Many kings - from Richard The Lionheart to Gustavus II Adolphus and Charles XII of Sweden - personally led their troops in battle. In the old days, there was nothing unusual about that. If only modern leaders had the balls to do the same...

Renault on 13/3/2009 at 17:16

Good point there, I guess my brain is too stuck in modern times. Given that point though, maybe it's a good argument that he IS like a king then. If he was just some figurehead or noble, like a Duke or a Lord, he probably wouldn't be on the battlefield.

Gambit on 13/3/2009 at 17:24

Curiously the time when Richard the Lionheart was away at battle is where the tales of Robin Hood and his Merry Men takes place.

Moral of the story: When the boss is away at battle it's thieving time.

Jah on 13/3/2009 at 17:53

Quote Posted by Brethren

I'm not so sure about that. During times of war, kings in feudal societies often called on their vassals to mobilize their troops - along with paying taxes, this was one of the things the feudal contract bound the vassals to do. Many of these dukes, counts and barons would command their own troops, either because they wanted a part of the glory of potential victories for themselves (distinguishing yourself in battle was a good way to gain prestige among your peers as well as your subjects), or because they simply didn't trust the king and wanted to make sure their troops aren't needlessly slaughtered because of his ineptitude.

The fact that the Baron has his own host of troops does suggest that he is at least an autonomous ruler - if there is a king or someone else nominally above him outside the City, their relationship is probably rather contractual and has little effect on the way the City is run. For the inhabitants, the Baron appears to be the de facto supreme authority; if there is a king, he's probably someone the average commoner would only know as some distant figure whose image is minted on their coins.

ManicMan on 13/3/2009 at 18:04

ah, but speaking as a englishman, i can tell you Richard the Lionheart (King Richard 1st) was a complete ba####d. England was forced on him and he only wanted it for the money, so he could go off and fight and Rape.

hang on.. doesn't that sound a little like some of the things you heard about the barron? he is only intrested in war... i'm sure i remembered hearing or reading that somewhere in the game... JTR, any stuff to back that up?

Herr_Garrett on 13/3/2009 at 18:41

Quote Posted by Jah

if there is a king, he's probably someone the average commoner would only know as some distant figure whose image is minted on their coins.

Fact is, the City has the Templar seal on its coins...:cheeky::cheeky:

jtr7 on 13/3/2009 at 18:46

My post above contains nearly EVERYTHING the games provide on the Baron (except for the street in the rich district of Dayport called Baron's Way). Not much, but his greed is established. He will enact justice if someone makes a strong enough case, distracted as he is by war. The unofficial canon in the unused files suggest he remained at war because it was profitable. He seems to be back home in TDS, if Baron Bresling is the same Baron at all.

There are the rare gold coins with the modified Templar Seal, but the common coins look like buttons, or have the yin-yang symbol on them. The best glimpse at the image is in the briefing for Framed!, b02.avi, which has a blurred image of some kind, and it looks like the artist made one coin and pasted it so all the coins are alike.

Renault on 13/3/2009 at 19:10

Here, let me add this one, from Ambush:

Extra 1: What's the latest on the war, Rollie? (Raleigh?)
Noble 1: Lord Anders hasn't received a report in some time. The last he heard it was not going well. I fear The Baron may return with the battlefield coming right up behind him.
Extra 1: I think you worry too much. This City is like a fortress. With the Mechanists here to help us defend The City, we needn't worry about it.
Noble 1: I think you put to much faith in The Mechanists. After all, they are only a splinter group of The Hammerites. Hardly a military force. They seem concerned only with aiding nobles with their fancy inventions. Their tin soldiers wouldn't last long against a real army.
Extra 1: Well, until I see a battle going on outside my window, I shan't worry about it.

jtr7 on 13/3/2009 at 19:13

:laff: Dang it! Thanks Brethren.

That's what I get for working off another list for another context. Here's another one more appropriate to this topic:

sg50405A: You hear about the raid at the Overlord's Fancy? Truart led the bust, himself.
sg60405B: Donal must be pretty pissed.
sg50405C: (Laughs) Uh, you could say that. (Laughs)
sg60405D: Huh. If Truart keeps up this pace we'll all be out of a job. There won't be anyone left to arrest.
sg50405E: O-ho! Well, I guess we'll just have to arrest the sheriff, at that point.
sg60405F: (Chuckles) Yeah, the Baron'll be surprised that Truart is working for everyone but him.
sg50405G: Does anyone know who the people the sheriff is working for are? I'm surprised that no one really talks about it.
sg60405H: (Suddenly serious) An' you won't be talkin' 'bout it, neither, if you know what's good for ya.