SubJeff on 6/9/2009 at 10:08
Yes.
It is entirely possible that with the best of intentions Eidos Montreal make a Thief 4 that is very clearly a progression from Thief 3 rather than Thief 1 or 2.
I can't say what about it will Thief 3-ish but let us assume, for the sake of argument, that when you play it you think "This really reminds me of playing Thief 3 more than it does Thief 1 or 2".
Would you be happy with that?
NB: I cannot define what makes Thief 3 different from the others in a sentence. Its many things but to me the gameplay changes (lean, climbing, no rope arrows, no swimming, general movement, auto-blackjack, etc) are the big departures. I guess 1 and 2 felt more "hardcore" and 3 is a bit... consoley? Trying to be more dramatic? 3rd person certainly makes it feel more "actiony" to me (I play only in 1st person anyway).
Platinumoxicity on 6/9/2009 at 11:12
Thief 4 should continue the story from where Deadly Shadows left off but the game itself should be based more on Thief 2. I think it would be smartest to take the best aspects of all the games and build the game from there. Take the lonely dark feel and gritty outlook of the world of The Dark Project, all the nice tools and gameplay mechanics from The Metal Age and...
...some good things from Deadly Shadows? Help me out here. What good things were added in TDS? Oh, and bring back all the good things that were removed in TDS, like swimming and rope arrows plz. :)
So I think that Thief 4 should continue the story from TDS but the game should be a "spiritual successor" to Thief 2. Em should try to fix the mistake and give Thief 2 the "sequel" it deserved but never got.
Beleg Cúthalion on 6/9/2009 at 14:18
I didn't suggest to ask if people would be "happy", just to ask them if they would prefer a "TDS 2" to no game at all. :p But just for my personal opinion, everytime I think about how TDS was, I remember the Seaside Mansion and the eerie music of Old Quarter and I say... yeah, I would be happy.
With those graphics nowadays you won't be able to capture the feeling of T1/2 anyway, for instance because it was its architectural simplicity that made it look (visually) "hardcore"... but it'd look just stupid today. Unless they come up with something really clever it surely will look more like TDS than T1/2. (This is no comment about story, general intelligence, gameplay etc.!)
SubJeff on 6/9/2009 at 14:20
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
I didn't suggest to ask if people would be "happy", just to ask them if they would prefer a "TDS 2" to no game at all.
Its my take on it.
I don't want a TDS 2. No way. If Thief 4 is just TDS 2 I won't buy it or ever play it.
Judith on 6/9/2009 at 14:26
I've been playing both T2 and T3 lately and as I don't generally miss things like rope arrows (swimming, yes), I feel that T3 is a bit too easy when it comes to stealth. I think that T2 lightgem is more "sensitive" to what player does.
For instance, if you're in the room with one or more light sources, even if you crouch in complete darkness, your movement causes the lightgem go to "yellow state", while in T3 it stays dark. I've never tried to tweak T3 stealth settings but it might be interesting to do that.
Jarvis on 6/9/2009 at 15:13
EM seems to clearly understand that Deus Ex 2 was a mistake. They've stated several times that when thinking about Deus Ex 3, that fans should imagine something closer to the original. In particular when it comes to the level sizes and focus on openness and story. We'll see if they put their money where there mouth is.
I say this because if they are turning their backs on Deus Ex 2, then maybe they will do the same to Thief 3. Here again, I'm referring to mainly level sizes and openness.
If it were up to me, I'd put as much distance between Thief 4 and the story of Thief 3 as possible. Things got too ridiculous. Fortunately it all got wrapped up, allowing for that distance. I don't want to see a continuation of TDS' story. I want to see the beginning of a new story.
Platinumoxicity on 6/9/2009 at 15:19
The outlook of the world in TDS wasn't as good as in T1 and T2. It had less steampunk elements, there were too many people in the City, and there were only 3 colors. Orange, Blue and Black. T1 and T2 had way more colors, so the world looked much larger, different building styles in different areas of the City, etc. Also, the Victorian-ish high-class architecture had disappeared in TDS. There were no highrise office buildings overshadowing the poor district in street level like in Dayport. Those low-poly streetlamps in T1 were perfect as they were, with jagged edges and the collector antennae.
I think the devs should ignore the outlook of TDS entirely, observe the world represented in T1 and T2 thoroughly and ask "What would this City look like on modern graphics?" One thing is certain, though. "Not blue."
Ostriig on 6/9/2009 at 15:24
Quote Posted by Jarvis
EM seems to clearly understand that Deus Ex 2 was a mistake.
[...]
I say this because if they are turning their backs on Deus Ex 2, then maybe they will do the same to Thief 3.
Possibly, but I think it's less likely. I've only played TDS, so I can't comment on the differences between it and TMA, like I can between IW and DX, but I was under the impression that TDS got a far better reception that IW. Personally, when discounting its heritage, I felt that IW was a decent game, and still that TDS was a
good game by any measure.
P.S. Just to make it clear, on the poll - sure, I'd be content with a continuation of TDS, gameplay-wise. Not that I'd be opposed to anything better.
Jarvis on 6/9/2009 at 17:29
There is no accounting for taste. If you though IW and TDS were decent/good games, then there's nothing I can say to discount that.
But I can offer my opinion:
They were rushed, shoddy, incomplete, thoughtless, and dulled-down shadows of their former selves. When taken in context of their predecessors, they are nothing but let downs. I for one do not want to let big businesses like Eidos get away crap like that. But boycotting it isn't the answer. To them, if it doesn't sell then they end the franchise. The only way to get the message across is be vocal about it. To make sure that we the audience are heard and that we expect a higher quality.
When taken out of context of their predecessors, they are lost in a flood of mediocre and uninspired games. This says something about me. Maybe this is me nearing the end of my evolution away from gaming. But whatever it is, I've been spoiled. After playing truly refreshing and inspired games like TDP, TMA, Deus Ex, Shadows of the Colossus, Myth, and MGS (the first one) I just can't entertain myself with the mindless garbage I used to spend hours with.
In my opinion, every one of the above games was genre busting, thought provoking, story filled, or just down right engaging and unique. I can see the heart and soul poured into them, and that always overshadows the blemishes.
I don't know if Ion Storm was to blame for IW and TDS, or if it was Eidos. It was probably a combination of both. Whatever it was, I expect better and I'm not going to take it quietly. I hated to see Ion Storm go, since they brought me the original Deus Ex. But if the best they could do was IW and TDS, then it was time for them to go.
Same goes for Eidos, of course, as I didn't have any respect for them to begin with.
Chade on 6/9/2009 at 21:57
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I can't say what about it will Thief 3-ish but let us assume, for the sake of argument, that when you play it you think "This really reminds me of playing Thief 3 more than it does Thief 1 or 2".
This is a bit of an awkward question, because people will have focus on different aspects of T3, and come away with different ideas about what a spiritual sequel would be like. Personally I would find a spiritual sequel to T3 to be the perfect T4, if it captured and improved on the things that defined T3 for me.
