Starker on 28/3/2014 at 22:48
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
Garrett has a real choice now. The future is not chosen in the story, because it's no longer written.
Then taking an apprentice would also be possible. You cannot claim it's an open ending and that Garrett has a choice and simultaneously eliminate that choice.
downwinder on 29/3/2014 at 03:28
garrett will never raise that girl if there would have been a thief 4,thief rebooot story is junk,and any reference to earlyer thief games was done to try to convince people game was going to be good,i look at it as more of a slap to the face of the oringal thief games,from storyline to the hand held experience,what do you mean i cant jump,are you kidding me,i was jumping back in 1998,are we going backwards with gaming today,shit let just break out the d&d book ,no wait lets blindfold our selves and play pin the tail on the burrick,no i got a better idea in 2015 we can have a game were you draw gylphs and call it thief 5 reboot
this is like a nightmare for me,i want to wake up and see thief 4
a thief game done in a d&d style would be interesting,or a deck of cards with thief like images on the cards,the joker could be woodsie_lord,52 cards in all would be a fun project.
sorry for yappin
Platinumoxicity on 29/3/2014 at 08:21
Quote Posted by Starker
Then taking an apprentice would also be possible. You cannot claim it's an open ending and that Garrett has a choice and simultaneously eliminate that choice.
As I said, it would not be impossible for Garrett to start a campaign to make peace with all of his enemies and create a magical money-generating machine in order to support two people with neither of them working for a living. The point was that the "apprentice continuation" is not
the continuation. It's just one of the possibilities, and that's the reason why the TDP intro and TDS outro are not identical. Garrett doesn't take an apprentice in the end of TDS. He only does so in someone else's spinoff continuation that branches off from that fork in the road after the fact.
-Possibly with zero explanation to how Garrett survives without working, and is inexplicably anonymously inconspicuous once again despite everyone insisting on the greatest thief the world has never seen being so famous that he's distinguishable by his footsteps. But if there's one thing we learned about NuThief, it's that if you point out in the story how weird some massive plot hole is, then it's completely okay and you can move on.
And fortunately we don't have to explain Garrett's decision to adopt a child in any way, because obviously during the 15 days that the story in TDS spans, Garrett's "character develops" from a misanthrope into a benefactor. Because that's how human beings change. When everyone refuses your help and refuses to help you, and your old friends turn on you, you quickly discover whole new ways of looking at the people around you who you never trusted before, in a positive light.Starker on 29/3/2014 at 11:21
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
As I said, it would not be impossible for Garrett to start a campaign to make peace with all of his enemies and create a magical money-generating machine in order to support two people with neither of them working for a living.
Indeed, and Deadly Shadows supports that possibility. He has already returned their prized artifacts to the pagans and to the hammers. Plus you could game the factions into being allies, to the point that fanatical religious zealots came to help out a thief, someone that they utterly despised. Plus he refers to himself as a keeper.
As for money, for the head of a new keeper organisation, other means would be available. What about the funds of the previous keepers? How did the keepers manage to support themselves? They had an army of assassins who presumably needed to be fed and clothed. They didn't seem to have a day job either. Also, nobody said Garrett has to abandon stealing. In fact, as the head of a new keeper organisation, there would probably be lots of things that only a thief can accomplish.
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
Garrett doesn't take an apprentice in the end of TDS. He only does so in someone else's spinoff continuation that branches off from that fork in the road after the fact.
And Garrett not taking an apprentice is only your spin-off continuation. It's only your reading of Garrett as a misanthrope who has no friends and as someone who would never do something that a keeper would do that enables this.
Platinumoxicity on 29/3/2014 at 12:35
Wait. Now you've suddenly decided that Garrett is the leader of the keepers? When did that happen? And what about the keeper order who were suddenly revealed? The baron and the City Watch are not going to apprehend and question this mysterious group that appeared out of nowhere right after the night of living murder statues? Feel free to explain that somehow.
And were the keepers actually aware of the failsafe and Garrett's purpose? Do they all look up to him as the hero, or do they despise him for taking away their abilities by acting rashly and using the glyph to defeat Gamall? Afterall, Gamall did attempt to obscure the prophecy. Even if you did manage to ignore the political repercussions of the keepers' unveiling, do the keepers actually think that Garrett did exactly what he was supposed to do? Or is he now more shunned than ever? There was no post-ending walk'n'talk with Artemus due to his death. Garrett didn't join the former keepers to talk things through and wonder about the future, he sat alone and said nothing.
The story really can go anywhere, but it would seem like your continuation is filled with massive plot holes, unexplained assumptions and just important details that you have failed to factor in. It's just an arbitrary extrapolation from a fraction of all the available factors, with some fairly big leaps. Wait... you wouldn't happen to be the writer of NuThief would you?
downwinder on 29/3/2014 at 13:59
when garrett grabbed the girls hand at end of thief 3 ,this is what happened after,he took the bag of gold back then he let the girl go hands her dewdrop and says goodluck and walks away into the shadows
this talk about the little girl is being mixed in due to that terrible reboot,laying odds anyone who supports thief reboot
the idea was to show how everything comes full circle,i figured most would have known that being long time thief fans
Starker on 29/3/2014 at 21:27
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
Wait. Now you've suddenly decided that Garrett is the leader of the keepers? When did that happen? And what about the keeper order who were suddenly revealed? The baron and the City Watch are not going to apprehend and question this mysterious group that appeared out of nowhere right after the night of living murder statues? Feel free to explain that somehow.
When I decided that the new game I'd like to see would be about a new keeper organisation. One that relies on espionage and careful manipulation of events. One that isn't made of morons and murderers.
As for the old keeper order, they are incompetent idiots and should be left for their own devices. They would make excellent villains for the new game. For example, you could have a mission to get back some of the keeper property that some of the old guard decided to grab for themselves. Similarly, you could have a mission to get back things that the city watch confiscated.
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
The story really can go anywhere, but it would seem like your continuation is filled with massive plot holes, unexplained assumptions and just important details that you have failed to factor in.
Did you even read my version? What plot holes does it have? There's nothing that a proper writer wouldn't be able to solve. In fact, it makes the pagans more interesting and believable and deals with the power vacuum left by the mechanists.
ClashWho on 1/4/2014 at 12:02
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
Garrett doesn't take an apprentice in the end of TDS.
It's heavily hinted that he does. Your idea that Garrett says something like, "You have talent" and then just says, "Welp, goodbye then!" is quite a bit more nonsensical than the idea that he trains her, either as a Keeper or as a thief.
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
And fortunately we don't have to explain Garrett's decision to adopt a child in any way, because obviously during the 15 days that the story in TDS spans, Garrett's "character develops" from a misanthrope into a benefactor. Because that's how human beings change. When everyone refuses your help and refuses to help you, and your old friends turn on you, you quickly discover whole new ways of looking at the people around you who you never trusted before, in a positive light.
Or maybe he just sees himself in her and wants to help her because of that. As hard as you try to make that possibility seem ridiculous, it just ain't gonna work.
Platinumoxicity on 2/4/2014 at 04:37
Quote Posted by ClashWho
It's heavily hinted that he does. Your idea that Garrett says something like, "You have talent" and then just says, "Welp, goodbye then!" is quite a bit more nonsensical than the idea that he trains her, either as a Keeper or as a thief.
It's heavily hinted by everything else Garrett says or does or refuses to do, that he doesn't. The one thing you derive your continuation out of is the similarity to the intro of TDP, like it's some magical cycle of life. Try this: Pretend like the intro of TDP wasn't like that. That there was no similarity between the beginning and the end. It would make the ending scene kinda pointless because of the lack of the throwback connection, but can you still honestly state that without that connection, the most likely continuation from that meeting must be adoption as an apprentice?
And you can fight your strawman someplace else please.
ClashWho on 2/4/2014 at 04:49
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
It's heavily hinted by everything else Garrett says or does or refuses to do, that he doesn't. The one thing you derive your continuation out of is the similarity to the intro of TDP, like it's some magical cycle of life. Try this: Pretend like the intro of TDP wasn't like that. That there was no similarity between the beginning and the end. It would make the ending scene kinda pointless because of the lack of the throwback connection, but can you still honestly state that without that connection, the most likely continuation from that meeting must be adoption as an apprentice?
So your idea is that Garrett doesn't change
at all from the beginning of Dark Project to the end of Deadly Shadows? He's a character with no arc? Just static? After all he's been through? We already
know that's false, because he
refers to himself as a Keeper at the end of Deadly Shadows. Something the Garrett of Dark Project and Metal Age would never have done. Garrett changed, and taking an apprentice could
easily be part of that change. And just the basic rules of storytelling tell us that that's exactly what he does. That's not just some throwaway scene at the end of Deadly Shadows. And there's no point in pretending that the intro to Dark Project wasn't like that, because
it was.
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
And you can fight your strawman someplace else please.
There's no straw here. Just you tilting at your windmill.
