If Thief IV had to be in the future, could a 1930s-like setting work ? - by Petike the Taffer
Petike the Taffer on 30/11/2008 at 08:30
Quote Posted by qolelis
Just because you let yourself be inspired by it doesn't mean you have to go all the way. I think the most interesting thing about nuth's idea is the mix of old and new. Make new things look old, as if they've always been there, even if it is what would be considered a modern invention. Realize new things in old ways.
Yes, I understand and like his concept, but the setting is too different, IMHO.
Quote Posted by Kin
For me thief is magic because it is carried out in a special medieval world. As i try to bring that world closer to today with my imagination i see that the magic is gradually lost.
So i would sugest if there is any technological evolution in thief 4 world it should be in the same medieval time as all the previous games.
Sure, the best thing would be to stay in the already established "timeline" (if I can call it like that). I am no great supporter of the whole mdernisation idea, but would like it, if it was executed as properly as the original medievalesque Thief games.
Herr_Garrett on 30/11/2008 at 13:38
I'd rather think that a pseudo-late-Viktorian setting would work much better. Consider: Gothique structures galore, and so do steam engines, but there is electric- and Diesel-driven stuff as well. Horses and swords/crossbows are as popular as automobiles and guns. Throw in some Zeppelins, Gothique-style skyscrapers, slum areas, factions, gigantomaniac Neoclassical churches and bank-buildings. Smog everywhere. Rivers are so polluted you can walk across their surface. Mobs and gangsters everywhere, fighting for the control of the burgeoning underworld. Huge, and I mean huge Hammerite factories helping the expansion of the already bloated Empire... On the surface, it's a bright and brave future, with civil rights, respect of different cultures, but beneath it's merciless oppression, and hate and fear of strangers. The rigid mannierisms bind everyone in society, but behind the peaceful walls of the manors and castles Gods know what's going on. Add some fictional Tesla-style inventions, and there you go. It has everything anyone could wish for :cheeky:
Not to mention that women in corsets are just hot:cheeky:
Petike the Taffer on 30/11/2008 at 18:58
Quote Posted by Herr_Garrett
I'd rather think that a pseudo-late-Viktorian setting would work much better.
Well, that sounds entirely like the previous installments, just stripped of the more medieval stuff. :p But anyway, it would work without problems... My idea of an inter-war-like period for Thief IV was based on the fact, that setting Thief in a pseudo-Victorian era would still result in a more-or-less same, surreal steampunky world. I just wanted to try out a little more darker, dystopic and dieselpunkish approach, so it would be still stylized and familiar, but different as well.
As long as "Garrett of the future" doesn't devolve into "cyberpunk thug Garrett "Neo" Gibson Mnemonic" or "Thief teh action spaaaaace opera !", it's okay with me... :)
Quote Posted by Herr_Garrett
Not to mention that women in corsets are just
hot:cheeky:
Damn, I should have realised your primary reason immediately... :rolleyes: :cheeky: :cheeky: ;) :cool:
Herr_Garrett on 30/11/2008 at 19:30
Well, then around the time of WW I. Just imagine the feeling, instead of the rickety Abysmal Gale, a Bismarck-sized battleship in the dock. One? Did I say one? A whole fleet, Builder damn' it! The Docks being in size of a town. Now that's what I call exploration.
I mean, the whole City would be bloated now several times of its original size, having a population around... let's say, 15 million. But the point is, that apart from the occasional skyscraper, the profile of the City remains. Still low buildings, crowding so close to each other. The little districts of the City being intersected by blazing boulevards, with a gigantic square in the middle, in which a monstrously big Guild/City/Council Hall is situated, overlooking and dominating the City... Around the square are the most important buildings... The central part is a small galaxy of light, which gradually fades as you move towards the poorer areas. The smog is omnipresent, because the City is "beleaguered" by huge factories. The Docks are full of them, too.
On the boulevards the rich drive in their automobiles, going to parks, opera-houses, theaters, spending their... "leisure time". The Auldale park could be the size of a small district...
The Hammers have churches everywhere, with extensive areas, and the City Watch has watchposts on every corner.
I mean, just think... A Watch officer, in chainmail, with a sword for fighting in close quarters, and a rifle for the rest. The Hammerites could have headsets, and while retaining their traditional hammer, they move around the City on their business on tracked vehicles. The Pagans are a bunch of Luddists, lurking in abandoned areas/parks/sewers, conducting "terrorist" attacks against factories and such, conjuring up monsters to help them, planting plants in abandoned buildings, raising the dead. The Keepers would still be the secret "masters" of the City, having even more work on their hands. They would be back on not relying so much onto Glyph magic, but rather, pulling the strings. They could seal no-go areas with Glyphs, like zombie-ridden graveyards, or old factories where Hammer experiments were miscarried.
I could actually kick up a story in a environment like that. :cheeky: I'll think up more details when I'll have the time.
Petike the Taffer on 30/11/2008 at 20:03
Herr_Garrett :
Ah, now you're speaking my language ! :)
Actually, you took some of the images and ideas right out of my mind... :D
To be honest, I wouldn't care much, if it would be precisely 1918 or 1930, just make it a vague early 20.-th century analogue, and it will do...
As for the factions and "politics" :
The only thing missing now, would be a young idealistic Pagan terrorist a lá Gavrillo Princip (maybe a future descendant of Larkspur) attempting to comit an assasination attack on the Baron/Mayor (a lá Franz Ferdinand). After his succesful attempt, a WWI conflict erupts between the City and it's rival, Blackbrook, and in it's shadow, the Pagans wage a new guerilla war with the Hammers and city officials... :laff: :laff: :thumb: :cool:
P.S. Don't forget trams ! Lovely vintage city trams powered by electricity from weird Tesla-like generators (as in previous Thieves) and riding on clockwork-like rail wheels...
Herr_Garrett on 1/12/2008 at 18:23
Aye, aye.
I think that the main plot could be something like... The Hammers devise a... device which would give the City and them a monstrous advantage in the war. The Pagans get to know this, and want to destroy it... Only that would take the City/the world with itself. So you have to, at the Keepers' instigation, obstruct both factions' plans, quite like. Also the different thief/gangster factions are after you after committing a master heist upon them. The City Watch wants you dead or alive, preferably dead, because you are... well, you. And behind all this looms the certainty of the City losing the war without the Hammers' machine. Add (but only as a hearsay, of course) epic battles, burning skies, Zeppelins crashing, weird arms-gadgets, etc., sprinkle it with Glyphs and magic-imbued weapons for the soliders, and serve it warm.
Among the factions I image would be something like the Assassins' Guild - I mean, we are talking about a City full of factions vying with each other -, a Beggars' Guild for the poor, and Inventors' Guild (which the Hammers continously try to stamp out), an Artists' Guild, and (I rather like this idea) a Soldiers' Guild. For in a city it is impossible to raise a standing army - but it could be done by establishing a Guild for them, which takes in all sorts, drills them, and turns them into, essentially, mercenaries. The Soldiers' Guild sends troops all over the world. Anyway.
The City could be ran by a benevolent but ineffectual Baron, and the real organising being done by the nobles, who hate each other. Therefore the City is always on the brink of destruction, but now, in the time of war, all the more. Especially since it's the nobles who try to command the Soldiers' Guild too - which of course the Guild doesn't want, and thus the army is next useless.
Hmmm... more details will come up, if anybody's interested.
muncadunc on 1/12/2008 at 18:59
You know, I've about a game like that for some time now- sort of a '30s film-noir style Thief, done on top of System Shock 2 to allow for a better inventory system and travel between levels, so designers can build a truly massive city. Too bad SS2 doesn't allow for all the skybox effects.
muncadunc on 1/12/2008 at 19:04
Please, though. Zeppelins are so, so played out in steampunk.
Queue on 1/12/2008 at 19:06
Quote Posted by qolelis
I wouldn't mind this at all, even though "Thief: Modern" seems to be a real taboo around here. I would suggest mixing&matching devices from older times with more modern devices and try to meld them together, like in Terry Gilliams's movie (
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846/)
Brazil.
Oooooo--I love that idea!
Greatest movie ever made...
TTK12G3 on 1/12/2008 at 19:29
Quote Posted by Herr_Garrett
Among the factions I image would be something like the Assassins' Guild - I mean, we are talking about a City full of factions vying with each other -, a Beggars' Guild for the poor, and Inventors' Guild (which the Hammers continously try to stamp out), an Artists' Guild, and (I rather like this idea) a Soldiers' Guild. For in a city it is impossible to raise a standing army - but it could be done by establishing a Guild for them, which takes in all sorts, drills them, and turns them into, essentially, mercenaries. The Soldiers' Guild sends troops all over the world. Anyway.
The City could be ran by a benevolent but ineffectual Baron, and the real organising being done by the nobles, who hate each other. Therefore the City is always on the brink of destruction, but now, in the time of war, all the more. Especially since it's the nobles who try to command the Soldiers' Guild too - which of course the Guild doesn't want, and thus the army is next useless.
Hmmm... more details will come up, if anybody's interested.
You need to bring this up in the multiplayer construction project.