Rob Hicks on 21/7/2005 at 09:06

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Hi NV,

Well, as I've maintained for a while, Dark Metal is a re-imagining of the Thief world, not an 'enhancement' as DEDX was. I expect most of my new models won't be useful for the enhancement project because they differ so much from the originals.

For the benefit of anybody who doesn't know what I mean by 're-imagining' - Dark Metal kind of exists in a 'parallel' Thief world. In Dark Metal, mechanists look different, their technology looks more HG wells rather than art deco and industrial...

Rob

Nameless_Voice on 21/7/2005 at 19:20

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But you also say that Dark Metal 'can run Thief 1, Thief Gold, and Thief 2 fan missions'.
Now, I didn't release a mission with that three-openable-drawer CabinetTable, but someone else might have done something similar...
You almost have to play through all existing FMs with Dark Metal to see what (if anything) is adversely affected... :eek:

Rob Hicks on 21/7/2005 at 22:57

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Spitter's right on this. Obviously, I cannot account for custom stuff in DM, simply because there's so much of it and it often conflicts. When a T1, TG or T2 unstripped mission (or a FM if it contains minimal custom stuff) is opened in the DM environment it will work almost immediately. There will need to be some cosmetic tweaking here and there (e.g. the famous backwards torches, but also things like particles, which will need to be updated).

Vigil - I'm only mentioning the things that are conceptually the same as (or very similar to) the originals.

EDIT_______________________________________________________

A night's sleep and a new idea. Dark Metal is bound to annoy just as many people as it pleases, simply because of the re-imaginings ("Boo" to quote ZB amongst others who have PM'd me). And I do see what they mean - I can hardly claim that DM allows play of T1, TG and T2 missions all in one gamesys when things will change to match my own concept. At the moment, as DM stands, changes to the original concept are inherent (if, for example, you decide to load 'Soulforge' into DM then the mechanists, cameras, robots, etc, all change to my vision by default. Naturally some people will not like this, but will still want access to DM's game improvements (e.g. guards who draw weapons from belts, improved SFX, the T1G object heirarchy implemented in the T2 gamesys, etc). Anyway, here's what I'm thinking...

Release THREE parts to DM.

PART ONE 'CORE' : Stands alone. It's simply the T2 gamesys with the T1G object hierarchy implemented. Additionally, the sound files, models, textures from T1G which are required to do this. Using the core, people can load in T1G2 OM's and custom-lite FMs with almost total compatability (maybe 100% when Telliamed's conversion scripts check out). And, the Enhancement project can slip nicely on top of the core.

PART TWO 'CUSTOM PACK' : This is the above gamesys, expanded to include all the nice new AI's, textures, models (pretty much like DEDX).

PART THREE 'REIMAGINED PACK' : Contains the 'altered' versions of T1G2 models and AIs for people who like a new look.


Now, if I do this, it will set DM back a month or so, and build a new gamesys for the 'core' (because my current DM gamesys contains everything), but I do believe this is a solution that will keep everybody happy. Building the core gamesys shouldn't be too hard - I've already sorted all the schemas, textures, missing models in the process of building what I have.

Thoughts?

Rob

Nameless_Voice on 23/7/2005 at 00:28

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A pity if it will take you longer, but I think that's probably the best idea.
I'm not sure if the core / custom objects need to be separate, though. Also, you could include 'enhanced' models (eg. those that look almost identical to the originals, and are texturemapped the same. For example, my old tables, but not my apples).

Making those custom flinders is very easy, as I have some custom flinders already and just need to reskin 'em.

Which reminds me of another point I wanted to make: most of my Enhancement Pack models are not directly based on the originals - I only used them as size / appearance guides. So, there would be no problems with using the models in other games (the Dark Mod, for example), if anyone wants to do so...?

demagogue on 31/7/2005 at 04:32

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Rob, at the risk of sounding totally clueless, what exactly does your idea entail from the not-very-technical p.o.v. of the casual user or casual dromeder (if there is such a thing :p )?

Is this like, a player just d/l's & installs DM ... and then when loading an OM or *any* FM, everything will take care of itself ... so that an T1G2 OM & FM will retain original features? And a DM FM will use the DM features without any trouble? (or is this whole issue beside the point, b/c the download will contain all the DM features & DM gamesys as part of the d/l package, so the maker does not have to be concerned that player's have not d/l'd DM)?

What if a player *wants* to play an FM or OM with the DM *vision*, will that take some amount of work on his/her part?

I'm still a little unclear what's going to happen with custom-heavy FMs here. You have permission to explain it to me like I'm a 6 year old.

Are DedX1 FMs in any way affected by, compatible with DM? What about them?

How much extra work are we talking about for dromeder's that have to choose between this 3 tiered system, e.g., if s/he wants to adopt your vision vs. just adding a few drop-in features, etc... Will it be more or less like it was for adding custom DedX material?

Again, sorry if I'm just asking clueless questions ... You're idea sounds worthwhile, but I'd like to know what the basic issues are in very simple, not-so-technical terms and how your plan plans to makes things better all around, and what sorts of demands it will make on your run-of-the-mill dromeder. Thanks. :)