Lady Rowena on 11/9/2005 at 23:26
Quote Posted by Nameless_Voice
And everyone else, could you please tell me what you liked and what you didn't?
Well, since you asked for it....;)
Things I like:
swords and hammers, weapon display case, potions(although they have a different shape), various household, cooking stuff (but I find them a little too dark), various jars, LC jars, some food, books (I miss the purple one), footlocker, big table, gears, telescope.
Things I don't like:
apple(why a green one?), cheese(I almost can't see the holes), pipes(patched repetitive texture).Also I think that the old wood stuff is too dark.
Armiore - the new one just isn't the same object, I really loved the old historiated one.
Fancy bed - (I'm not speaking for myself here, because I created 6 different textures for it in my new FM), I don't like it at all, the round shape of the "columns" is inappropriate, the wood colour is too light, the bedspread seems just right for the kids room. Sorry if is sounds harsh, but I really don't like it.
All the rest....well, as Eshaktaar said, it's a matter of tastes. Generally speaking I think that the new objects, doors etc, should have more or less the same color/gradient of the old ones.
I think that's all. :)
PS - NV, I sent you a PM with a permission request.
Morpheus on 12/9/2005 at 00:03
Quote Posted by Lady Rowena
Harpalus
Sometimes I spend hours changing textures, objects and lights in one single room just to see if it looks good. (in my point of wiew, of course). Therefore I don't think that you have the "right" to change anything. If you don't like it, just don't play it.
I don't know anything about RIAA and DRM, but I would say: do you want to decide the plot of the movie? You'll have to make one by yourself.
Do you want a customized FM? Start building your own mission then!
That's nice and all, but you'll have to get used to the fact that you have no control what-so-ever over what people do with your mission once it's been downloaded and they never distribute a changed version of your work.
Ottoj55 on 12/9/2005 at 00:10
for the average thief player installing a playing a fan mission is good enough. i released a black and white mod, not a lot of talk about it, i think a object upgrade pack would have the same reaction. so ultimately you'd put the tools into the hands of people lacking the saavy to use them fully, they are best left in our hands to use as we see fit.
Lady Rowena on 12/9/2005 at 00:30
Quote Posted by Morpheus
That's nice and all, but you'll have to get used to the fact that you have no control what-so-ever over what people do with your mission once it's been downloaded and they never distribute a changed version of your work.
I'm very sick of this subject, I've already answered. It's clear that people can do everything they want once they have my FM on their computer, but since I've spent a part of my life on it, since I care maybe too much, since it's my creation, I will do whatever I can to prevent them to change things in my FM.
I hope it's clear. Anyway English is not my language, so I can't explain it better, sorry.
Anyway this was NOT the subject of this thread...
Logan on 12/9/2005 at 05:20
Quote:
I'm very sick of this subject, I've already answered. It's clear that people can do everything they want once they have my FM on their computer, but since I've spent a part of my life on it, since I care maybe too much, since it's my creation, I will do whatever I can to prevent them to change things in my FM.
I hope it's clear. Anyway English is not my language, so I can't explain it better, sorry.
As I make some year ago a (
http://82.199.102.13/cgi-bin/base.cgi?listpics=/FILEARCHIVE/PATCHEs/Gold/VisualPatch/screens/) Visual Pack for Thief Gold, nobody says it great or bad mission only because he installing it to the game, but as I spent many time collecting tonns of textures I can't look at thief1 or thief2 without crying. And I like Thief that way I (
http://82.199.102.13:8080/FILEARCHIVE/PROJECTs/Lord%20Vivek/Visual%20Patch/screens/) make it, so FM becomes the same texturing and modeling only using changed resources of the main game. And I look at some ugly missions from another angle of view, and take opinion not because they bad architecturing, because beaty important for me. Cause we have very different mind to see objects models and of course Thief too. I think it's bad idea to change FM, cause it'a about 700, except if repacking it, so pack must be as a Patch for the game. If somebody like this - it'll stay, don't like - uninstall it. BUT THIS PATCH MUST BE!!!! I tired to make it by own forces, cause I not dromader, modeler, so I look for your work with a great waiting for it release.
Sorry for English. It's not my own language.
Nameless_Voice on 13/9/2005 at 21:19
Quote Posted by Lady Rowena
Things I like:... cooking stuff (but I find them a little too dark)...books (I miss the purple one)
I agree, the pots are a little dark. I should lighten them a little near the bottom. I don't have any suitable source photographs for the purple LC book.
Quote Posted by Lady Rowena
Apple(why a green one?), cheese(I almost can't see the holes), pipes(patched repetitive texture).
Because the original one is, in fact, a tomato (look at the texture - it's called
tomato.gif). But the reason I made a green one was because I don't have any red apples in the house... (Maybe I should just change the Hue?)
I agree that the cheese needs work.
The pipes may not look good, but they
do look like the original ones. An FM author is free to use Vigil's version in their FM; the objects in this pack are supposed to look as much like the originals as possible.
Quote Posted by Lady Rowena
Also I think that the old wood stuff is too dark.
Armiore - the new one just isn't the same object, I really loved the old historiated one.
Fancy bed - (I'm not speaking for myself here, because I created 6 different textures for it in my new FM), I don't like it at all, the round shape of the "columns" is inappropriate, the wood colour is too light, the bedspread seems just right for the kids room. Sorry if is sounds harsh, but I really don't like it.
I'll look into these. Anyone willing to have a go at recreating that old-style armoire?
I rather like the bed, myself... I might see about tweaking it a little though; maybe darkening the textures and making it a little squarer.
Finally, I'd like to make a point: I am no good at actually making textures from scratch, so I'm limited to using things that I can photograph as the base for them.
Any comment on the 'rust' textures?
Final word on argument: I'm making this package. I want to make the objects in it look as much like the the originals as possible, only more detailed. So long as the objects/textures as faithfull to the old ones, there should be few complaints. If you feel that an object or texture is too different, let me know, and I'll consider fixing it.
Eshaktaar on 13/9/2005 at 21:43
I think the rusty door texture is too dark. It's used right at the start of Running Interference, and when I get into the butler's room, the two doors leading into the manor are both pitch black. The flat shading might also be responsible for that.
Correction: I checked the original doors in Running Interference, and they are just as dark. Some of the rivets have their shadows too far away, though, which makes it look as if they were floating off the door. If you don't mind, I'll try to remake the texture according to the new model.
While Garrett's new sword certainly looks very nice it strikes me as being way too fancy for a practical weapon. I have the same feeling for the weapon display case, which looks great but rather out of place when found in a City Watch station.
What I like very much are the wooden doors whose carvings are now actually 3D.
I can try helping out with some of the textures, if you like.
The_Dude on 13/9/2005 at 22:45
Time for my two penny worth. :)
I think NV is getting some very negative comments here given all the hard work he has put into this project and I am glad to see he is unbowed and will continue regardless. Although I can understand why authors are concerned about protecting their work (and God is it hard work!), I think it is unfair to criticize this project before seeing the results in game. Once the pack has been finished and is in beta is the time to voice this type of criticism IMHO. From what I have seen NV's work here is excellent though I haven't had time to look at the latest release.
Author's lose control of their work once it has been downloaded by an individual. I would suggest that any author who still objects to the pack once it has been completed should make it clear on these fora that they would prefer people not to use it for their particular work. It is then up to the individual to comply or not as they see fit.
Eshaktaar on 13/9/2005 at 23:24
The pack currently is in beta, as NV stated himself, and that is why people are airing their opinions about what they like and don't like in the current pack. There's a link to the zip somewhere on the former pages.
I think it's necessary that we are criticising the pack's content honestly and without beating around the bush. Criticism is not meant as a discouragement here but as an aim to get the best results possible. Clearly NV won't be able to please everyone, but we might as well try to find a compromise most people here are happy with.
Eshaktaar on 14/9/2005 at 21:39
Here's my version of the RustD2 texture (using the standard Thief palette):
Inline Image:
http://mypage.bluewin.ch/thonr/temp/RustD2.gifIngame shot of the texture (from left to right: original with old door model, NV, mine):
Inline Image:
http://mypage.bluewin.ch/thonr/temp/rdoors.jpgNV, if it's to your liking, you can use it. If you prefer your own, no harm done :)
Something I noticed is that the flat shading of the improved door21 model sometimes causes parts of the door to be lighted brighter than others (e.g. the first door at the start of Running Interference). Phong probably looks better in this case, if it doesn't take too much away from the door's angularity.
