In b4 Cease&Desist - yet another SS2 remake effort. Lets talk about fan remakes!

Yakoob on 13/8/2012 at 20:20

So the TTLG krew might find (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/08/13/sho-can-system-shock-2-in-source/) this RPS article relevant, which is yet another fan attempt at ~~remaking System Shock 2~~, losely recreating medical level of System Shock 2, this time in Valve's Source Engine variety. If I had a dime for every time someone recreates medical...

(EDIT: to clarify, since the guy is not setting out to recreate SS2, I am not targetting him in particular!)

But to avoid stealing RSS Bot's fame, I want to push this thread into the general topic of fan remakes. I guess their viability, or lack thereof, is clear especially in the case of SS2 and EA. But even if such efforts were viable, I still end up wondering.... why?

I mean the original games are still there and, with advent of DosBox and GOG, increaingly more accessible. Why spend months upon months and assemble a successful indie team together just to recreate something that is already there? Why not put all these awesome resources (which are NOT easy to gather, as we can learn from all the failed game projects) to make something NEW?

Now, if you love SS2 and want to see more of it, then do that - make more of it, not just a replicate. A new game inspired by the old classics seems, to me, like a much better investment! You don't risk a Cease & Desist Letter, you make a kickass game, AND you still get to pay homage to the classics. It's a win all around.

june gloom on 13/8/2012 at 20:38

It's not really a remake so much as it's a proof of concept.

Personally I like the idea, but I'd settle for the actual SS2 being released on GoG. Probably never happen though -- the rights to the license are divvy'd up like the Triforce if I remember right.

Yakoob on 13/8/2012 at 21:41

Ya I just updated my post to clarify I am not targetting the author, just talking about fan remakes in general. Sorry for the confusion!

redrain85 on 13/8/2012 at 22:55

I don't entirely understand a lot of people's obsession for remakes. In certain cases, it makes sense. Sure. But not for everything. As long as a game still runs (or, can be made to run) and still looks reasonably good by today's standards (or, again, can be made to look better), why not just play the original.

This goes for fan remakes, and publishers, alike. (Publishers, more often than not, fuck it up anyway. See: Syndicate.)

Yes, yes, I know. Patches, mods, headaches, etc. But there have been efforts made to make this process as painless as possible for many game titles. (e.g. SS2Tool, Tafferpatcher.)

I agree with Yakoob, that the talent that goes into these attempts at remakes, would be better utilized by creating additional content (mods, FMs). Or, a fan project that's inspired by a title, rather than trying to copy it exactly. (e.g. The Dark Mod.)

I'm guessing that, in this particular case, the person who did this SS2 level remake in Source did it simply to gain attention. "Someone at Valve, hire me! Please!" ;)

Yakoob on 14/8/2012 at 00:10

Exactly. I mean, if we have access to the source code like for Arx Fatalis, or if it's texture/model/etc. upgrades, or some stability hacks for modern system, I'm ALL for them. But remaking a WHOLE game from strach ? Eeeh...

Quote:

I'm guessing that, in this particular case, the person who did this SS2 level remake in Source did it simply to gain attention. "Someone at Valve, hire me! Please!"

Heh, doubt it, SS2 simplistic and blocky architecture (given its time) is not exactly a good source material for showcasing your skills. Which is another of my beefs; if you set out to recreate a game's level, why not re-envision it using all of modern tech's bells and whistles, and even some of your own personal flair, rather than recreating it exactly as it is?

heywood on 14/8/2012 at 00:58

If there's one game I'd like remade, it's System Shock. It was too ambitious for early 90s tech and when playing it I get the sense of the developers struggling to fit more of everything than could comfortably fit within the hardware limitations. It feels like a modern game remade for an old platform. Whereas games like Doom and Blood feel comfortable in their tech.

But System Shock 2 doesn't need a remake. We've already got SHTUP and Rebirth.

I'm not that interested in Black Mesa either.

demagogue on 14/8/2012 at 06:45

The main temptation to do a remake I think is because somebody else has already worked out the game mechanics and written the story, so you have a ready-made blueprint to work on a game you know will be good, as opposed to starting from scratch and not knowing what to do.

But my reaction is usually the same ... go for an "inspired by" new map and it's a win for everybody all around.

BTW, Dark Mod just copies stealth mechanics (and not even perfectly), but of course we're still talking about new & original maps. It's just an issue IMO when people want to recreate an entire Thief level; then you want to say, why don't you just make a new map inspired by it?

That said, I've always hoped for branch Dark Mod projects, like a 1930s branch, a cyberpunk branch, a ninja branch... It's an open source game so it's possible for people to put our favorite stealth mechanics into these new settings. It's just a matter of people with a will & ability to do it.

icemann on 14/8/2012 at 11:34

My only issue with this remake/redo of SS2 is that its the damn medical level again. GAH. If someone would just remake the first level of engineering or Hydroponics for a change that would be so refreshing.

Springheel on 14/8/2012 at 21:12

Quote:

BTW, Dark Mod just copies stealth mechanics (and not even perfectly),

I'm sure you don't mean that the way it sounds... :weird:

demagogue on 15/8/2012 at 04:47

Naturally. I mean like the mantling is much easier and more natural than Thief was. We can swing on ropes. We have the whole object-manipulation ability. The sword fighting system is much different. My point was just it's not like a perfect copy.

And by "just copies stealth mechanics", I meant the parts it is taking are like the light gem and visibility, slipping through shadows past guards, the arrows... It's not like we were literally taking the fiction, characters, and literal maps from Thief. We're just taking the same mechanics and putting them in an updated & open source engine. So calling it "Just a remake of something already there" isn't entirely accurate. It's not a remake; it's a way to keep making original FMs. (And BTW all the FMs themselves are still originals, so you're not re-playing anything.)