faetal on 5/2/2015 at 09:10
Quote Posted by Le MAlin 76
Staline and Hitlers are both killed jewish and catholics Polish, but Polish had revenged against there two monsters, Poland is independant and the White Eagle is stong; and anyone, atheist communist or nazi will destroy the Poland who live with catholics, jewish and few tartars muslim; the religious had conserved the independance of Poland against the invaders. All men who want killed religious in Poland were nazi fascist and stalinist.
In Poland there was many religions, and no religion war, so explain me that if you can, how there was no civil religious war in Poland ?
Hitler was very religious, as has been repeatedly demonstrated again and again, to no net gain apparently, since people still hold him up as an example of evil atheism: (
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler)
The great thing with religion is that it effectively infects the mind and acts like an OS for disseminating information. Catholicism is a great example because you have an entire massive religion who believes that the Pope is in direct commune with god and thus anything coming from the Vatican is deemed to be the word of god via its proxy. Likewise, if you have Imams preaching, for example, that women should (
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/berlin-radical-imam-tells-mosque-women-cant-say-no-husbands-sexual-urges-1486479) never refuse their husbands sex, that message is by and large not going to be getting used as an excuse by anyone bar Muslims, because it is disseminated as a message of Islam, not a general life tip. Now obviously that represents an extreme, and many moderates will dismiss the guy as a loon (and rightly so), but even moderates are susceptible to assimilating ideas put out through religious channels. I've dated four catholic women and am married to one and they have all been raised in a general climate of being ashamed of their sexuality for example. This message goes in because it is tied to the dual concepts of pleasing / appeasing their creator and hoping for happiness in the afterlife. I am saying that those dual concepts are hugely influential in lending memetic viral potency to ideas disseminated as if canon. Now as far as I am aware, atheists do not have a creator to appease and no afterlife to worry about.
In short, I think persuading an atheist who is of sound mind to put their lives at high or certain risk for a cause is a dramatically tougher sell than doing the same with a devout religious person who believes this cause will please their creator and earn them a VIP booth in eternity.
Briareos H on 5/2/2015 at 09:14
Quote Posted by Slasher
And for this thread..Now that's an apology I'll gladly accept.
Tony_Tarantula on 13/2/2015 at 00:24
It's a lot more complicated than the quotes implies....and I put relatively little stock into what any politician says. A lot of the actual policies he implemented were Wikipedia has a more in depth policy, but there's ample evidence out there to support the article's conclusion:
Quote:
Hitler himself believed that in the long run, National Socialism and religion would not be able to co-exist, but was prepared temporarily to restrain some of his more radical instincts out of political considerations.
Quote:
The great thing with religion is that it effectively infects the mind and acts like an OS for disseminating information. Catholicism is a great example because you have an entire massive religion who believes that the Pope is in direct commune with god and thus anything coming from the Vatican is deemed to be the word of god via its proxy.
Incorrect. The concept of papal infallability is only valid when the pope is teaching on issues regarding Church doctrine or moral teachings. In all other areas the pope isn't anymore likely to be right than the random bum on the street.
(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility)
Tony_Tarantula on 13/2/2015 at 00:27
Quote Posted by Slasher
Do you have intimate knowledge of where I work, how many donations I may or may not have made, organizations I may or may not be a part of, and how many kittens I have or have not saved God from killing this year too?
I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but you're not doing yourself or your cause any favors. You come off as an arrogant narcissist who needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror.
Nobody's talking to you. The comment was directed at someone who has dodged the question or redirected the discussion any time someone asks him about his own experiences with prejudice, violence, discrimination, racial issues, etc.
Given that response it's reasonable to assume that his actual, hands on experience with racism is jack shit....and as such I have very little tolerance for when he tries to claim that because of his slacktivism, he's a better person than those of us who have actually taken a (significant) amount of time out of our lives to help oppressed populations.
froghawk on 13/2/2015 at 05:10
Can someone just merge all of this into a single faetal vs Tony thread so that every single thread on the entire damn board isn't full of the same 2 debates? It's in at least 6 threads now - the whole board is being turned into a battleground for these two.
faetal on 13/2/2015 at 07:20
Or better yet, one with just Tony and his ever expanding collection of straw men. Talking of dodging questions Tony:
"Sorry, but while I laud your work, it does not mean that you have some kind of "everyone else's opinion is bullshit" gold card for debating the topic.
If you see some specific part of what I say which is bullshit, then please put it in quotes and cite some reliable source for why it is mistaken. If I've made a mistake, I'll be grateful for the improved information. Apologies for not taking your word on it, you are just a name on a page and it's not unheard of for people to make shit up to bolster their views. It still just seems to me that you're using the existence of genocide as some kind of smoke screen for dismissing the importance of equal rights for women and homosexuals. More than that, you don't seem to be making any decent argument for why sexism, homophobia and genocide can't all be addressed at the same time."
All I'm getting from you so far is "I've done some work in Africa* therefore no one else can have any opinions on religious strife in Africa, oh yeah and I get a free pass to say what I like about homophobia and sexism too, because no one else has morals like me". And yes, that's an intentional straw man to show you just how ridiculous you are.
* And I'm supposed to just take your word on that.
Additionally, if you call charity donations slacktivism, I'm going to assume you've never worked closely with charities, given how important donations are to maintaining them.
You seriously think that all of your bluster actually contains an argument?
DDL on 14/2/2015 at 21:06
Quote Posted by froghawk
Can someone just merge all of this into a single faetal vs Tony thread
I dunno, faetal vs TT threads are largely keeping this place breathing now that dethtoll threw his toys out of the pram. Rational discourse vs angry stupidity is an almost inexhaustible engine of entertainment. I'd chip in more, but I don't have faetal's gift for apposition or concision.
nickie on 14/2/2015 at 21:40
I agree. I'd like to see a bit of separation of posts but everything's become such a mishmash that it's almost impossible to see where to put what. But I always enjoy your posts, DDL, so perhaps you shouldn't hold back!
faetal on 16/2/2015 at 10:30
Quote Posted by DDL
I dunno, faetal vs TT threads are largely keeping this place breathing now that dethtoll threw his toys out of the pram. Rational discourse vs angry stupidity is an almost inexhaustible engine of entertainment. I'd chip in more, but I don't have faetal's gift for apposition or concision.
Really? I almost always find myself wishing I'd said things the way you did.
I rant - your posts feel way more coherent.
faetal on 16/2/2015 at 10:47
Quote Posted by nickie
I agree. I'd like to see a bit of separation of posts but everything's become such a mishmash that it's almost impossible to see where to put what. But I always enjoy your posts, DDL, so perhaps you shouldn't hold back!
[video=youtube;Toek6CdldC8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toek6CdldC8[/video]
