faetal on 9/1/2015 at 19:52
Yes. Religion is far less likely to draw scorn when it isn't getting involved in public matters.
Volitions Advocate on 9/1/2015 at 20:11
The US is a special case. They have it in their constitution that they can be equipped to deal with fighting their own military.
People in Canada use the "it'll be just like the USA" argument constantly as though its some how as inviolable as the Switzerland argument is invalid.
I'm a Canadian and I don't own a gun "because its my right" or because I need to oppose the government. I can't just walk into a store and buy a gun with my drivers license. I own because I enjoy target shooting, and I hunt for food. I don't own for self defense because self defense with a firearm is basically illegal in Canada. Rest assured, despite what the law says, and despite whatever threat there was or how justified you were in defending yourself, if there was a firearm involved, you are getting charged.
I fall under more scrutiny from the government than convicted sex offenders because I hold a firearms license. We are so damn scared of guns in this country that a Soldier guarding a memorial on Parliament Hill wasn't given ammunition for his rifle while he was on duty, and he is now dead. Shot to death by a man with extremist values and a hunting rifle designed in the 1800s.
It's NOT about empowerment. It's not about being bigger or badder than anybody else. Maybe that's the way it is in the US, but not here. I don't feel the need to be the alpha male, and I don't believe that any of the people in my camp that I lobby with feel the need either. But people keep telling us that we're just one bad day away from being a mass murderer or that we can't shoot strait or make important decisions because we're not cops or military. Telling me that I need to lay down my life in the event of a violent crime or act of terror just to make others "feel" safe because I'm not carrying a gun.... well... I don't understand how that is anything but emotion. Pass laws, feel safe. Too bad you actually aren't any safer when you do that.
Gryzemuis on 9/1/2015 at 20:30
During the last 60 hours, I have not seen any European suggest that we should all start carrying weapons. Not one. It's a complete non-issue. Stopping crying because someone stole your gun.
I wish my French was better.
Interview by telephone with Chérif Kouachi (the younger brother of the Charlie Hebdo shooters).
A French newspaper (or tv station ?) was smart enough to just try and call the office where the shooters were hiding.
Much to their surprise, Chérif picked up the phone. And talked to them for a few minutes.
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5Okl9XwUwk)
faetal on 9/1/2015 at 20:40
Yep. We don't need guns - plain and simple.
DrK on 9/1/2015 at 20:50
From a terrorist attack on Charlie Hebdo, we end up talking about firearms legislation, this is completely off-topic and quite inappropriate...
The real problem to me is the fact that these assassins were well known by our intelligence service, years ago they went in jail for having connections with terrorist groups. And yet they managed to commit such a horrible thing, the same way Mohammed Merah did about 3 years ago. As always in France, we need a problem to occur first before we think about it, I feel like we aren't able to prevent problems from happening...
It has nothing to do about religion, it's the french state which has been failing in a few suburbs for years. The state abandonned them, be it regarding education, equipments and security, and we let a few fanatics preach their nonsense and freely enroll these idiots. Sure we did prevent a few attacks and stopped a few preachers, but it's not enough. I know they are a very small minority, and hopefully so, but these guys just have hatred against France and everything it represents. Their false perception of Islam is just an excuse, and I'm afraid we'll see more of them in the near future.
To me this is just a failure from our part, and a huge waste overall.
And BFMTV is a TV Station as well as a very popular radio station.
Volitions Advocate on 9/1/2015 at 21:15
I think it's incredibly appropriate or I wouldn't have brought it up.
But I'll go elsewhere with it if you guys don't want to talk about it.
Gryzemuis on 9/1/2015 at 21:17
It's not just the French state that ignored problems with immigrants. In The Netherlands we have very similar problems. And I refuse to accept that only the state is responsible, and no individuals.
The support amongst muslim-youth for these attacks is surprisingly high. More than a few percent. Research amongst muslims has also revealed that many would (
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html) prefer it if sharia-law would be introduced in western countries. The exact percentages depend on how you exactly ask the questions, etc. I can understand how young people feel left alone, or discriminated against. But there is a huge step from that, to going to Syria or Iraq and actually fight and kill people.
I believe that religion is a poison. It slowly poisons people, their minds, their children, whole countries. Religion gives people sense of superiority. Sense of justification. Not everyone gets poisons at the same amount. Toxicity levels vary. But religion is a bad influence. And these acts of terror are ultimately caused, or inspired, by religion.
I wish there was a way to remove religion's impact on society, without outlawing religion at the individual level. Even though I think religion is ultimately for the stupid, I don't want to withhold the stupid from their right on stupidity. There is no easy answer.
faetal on 9/1/2015 at 21:38
Religion is fine as a personal choice - it's nobody's business what others believe in. But taking your religion into other people's lives and expecting them to honour restrictions which only matter to you? Fuck that. Goes for Christians with their abortion bullshit too, lest we forget Scott Roeder. Whichever human-invented story of creation people decide on, it should be kept private. (I've made a noticeable impact on a bottle of wine, so if this reads a bit odd, be lenient until I can sort it out tomorrow)
fortuni on 9/1/2015 at 22:35
Quote Posted by DrK
The real problem to me is the fact that these assassins were well known by our intelligence service, years ago they went in jail for having connections with terrorist groups. And yet they managed to commit such a horrible thing, the same way Mohammed Merah did about 3 years ago. As always in France, we need a problem to occur first before we think about it, I feel like we aren't able to prevent problems from happening...
To me this is just a failure from our part, and a huge waste overall.
i heard security expert say on the radio today that to fully monitor a suspect 24/7 you need 25 highly trained watchers for each suspect, and in France there are over 500 potential Al-Qaeda affiliated potential suspects, that would mean 12,500 highly trained undercover operatives sitting around all day basically mainly doing nothing as these guys are not planning terrorist operations everyday day, all day long. If you then take into account all the support staff, back room boys, management and so on you could end up with as many as 25000 people keeping an eye on just 500. Even then these guys are not stupid, they fully know they may be under watch and so plan everything as covertly as they can, so even if they are being watched 24/7 they may well be able to organise their attacks and even launch their attacks without the watchers having picked up what they are up to. So sadly the authorities have to prioritise their activities on those they think or know are up to no good, which means even more sadly, as events have proved, some little shits will always manage to carry out their vile and evil deeds
DrK on 9/1/2015 at 22:53
I'm aware of that, and that's the problem. We need to act differently or else it'll keep happening. How ? I don't know, but we must find a way, and I'm sure the debates in the coming year in France will be around this tricky question. Merah was already a catastrophe, but I feel this time it went even further, and things will change.
