jtr7 on 2/5/2009 at 13:08
Context, Friendly. No REAL gray, as in "not like real life," as in not so unlike their peers while not considered rogue or splintered off into a new faction, which are both things I keep saying. Also, the factions are pretty black & white amongst themselves, and the grayer characters are either heroes against their fellows, or enemies of all. You want realism, put it in fanfic. For a game that matches the OMs, no cross-breeding of paradigms.
And you have not told me how a Mechanist--within the Thief games--could be a taffin' thief. How could he not believe in the Builder's judgment, how could he get away with speaking the archaic English or feel okay without doing it. He would be ashamed. The Mechanists are proud and industrious and give thanks to the Builder for their acquired knowledge. This guy would have to be insane. He'd be committing the very crimes his religion dismembers people for, and he'd be fine with it? Why would he be thieving when he could earn a living doing legitimate work he can be proud and thankful for? Too much just flat-out goes against the Mechanist faction precepts. He would not be a Mechanist any longer, and he would not have any Mechanist only traits, and would not be recognisable as having even been one, without the story telling us that, but it would be in the past.
Now if he came up with a radical idea that was built upon a Hammer/Mechanist foundation, yet went off into CORRUPTION territory, like taking one of their philosophies, misinterpreting it, and taking it to an even more fanatical level, it could work. Find a precept about taking from others (let's see...freedoms, pagan property--not that they have anything they want, but they deprive the pagans of it to punish, hurt, or kill them) and corrupt it.
Dia: Yes! The closest to "modern" I can stand for Thief (barring something surprisingly cool and clever), is Life of the Party/Unwelcome Guest, those buildings smothering the castles, smog, the first cutscene of TDP/Gold with Viki and Con but that overview of The City. We still have not seen a series of rooftops like the Intros and Cutscenes, but LotP/UG came as close as we've seen.
FriendlyStranger on 2/5/2009 at 14:09
Yeah but that's where our POV differs: You derive principles from the "plain of the untold". Its nowhere said explicitly that there have never and will never have been any real gray characters. That's an individual reception on your side and not an universal truth. I say you can put it that way if you want, but for me I can only state it's okay to add in gray characters.
That's why it's no big thing for me to have a mechanist-fugitive stealing things to survive - he could be ashamed of what he is doing, but maybe he thinks - I have to survive to preserve the Mechanist teachings, to recreate what was destroyed in soulforge incident. To make it clear: Someone may not want to drink his own urine, but when it comes to staying alive in the desert without water - heck he won't deny himself the only chance of survival just because he is ashamed or disgusted. A few days of thirst and hunger and people change... and same goes for the Thief-Mechanist.
It seems imaginable for me. (I never said it was the 1 A approach to a new Thief 4 storyline, I don't want anything else in the matter of T4 story than a consistent T1,2 like storytelling with Garrett and references to the former installments...)
Maybe we leave it that. Better discuss, what could be a good idea rather than just discussing if a certain mediocre story is even possible to add in.
FriendlyStranger on 3/5/2009 at 18:25
I wonder if there will be a new faction in T4 or if they stick to the old ones... do you think there is room for additional ones?
In my opinion they shouldn't add anything big-scaled, instead they should focus on giving some more background on the genesis of the old ones - I mean how did hammerites start?
jtr7 on 4/5/2009 at 03:26
As long as the three are there--though the Keepers will be drastically altered--then any new factions are welcome, as with TMA, with the City Watch heavily involved in half of the missions. I still think the Nobility, the Baron, could become the next big faction for the next game, with the Keepers offering their knowledge from their readings and what they had learned of certain people through their observations. The Keepers can still dig up info at any public Hall of Records and the Grand Library we've yet to visit. I think the Keepers are the ones who need to seek redemption, or acceptance of their mistakes.
FriendlyStranger on 4/5/2009 at 08:52
I would like to see the Keepers retake their "behind the scenes" position they had in T1,2 - observing Garrett only appearing very secretly, like the one in Life of the Party. Maybe leaving a few caches for Garrett.
FriendlyStranger on 4/5/2009 at 09:48
If the Baron takes his return - what should be his goals then? I mean what could the story be like, will he try to wash the city up - fight corruption, drive the undead out of the city? Or will he be evil and greedish, exploiting his people?
massimilianogoi on 4/5/2009 at 16:51
Haha what's this? :laff:
I love this gem
jtr7 on 4/5/2009 at 21:41
Yeah, the Light Gem in all its phases. I'll be working on the TDS version at some point down the road.
Friendly: The Baron could become dictatorial, or go insane and have someone else making decisions in his stead (as in a "power behind the throne storyline), or any slightly exaggerated real life scenario of oppressive government. Taxing people to death, for instance. Derived from real history and given a Thiefy twist. Maybe a mole from Blackbrook assimilated into the City Council to subtly undermine the Baron (it must not seem like something out of Star Trek or Star Wars!), because they aren't happy with the outcome of the war, and the second twist is they are not from the Blackbrook government, but a rebellion with some scheme that was undone or hindered. Blackbrook has magical constructs and there's something about their elemental crystals for them to be imported into The City, as The City has plenty, and who's been using them and for what, anyway? For whatever reason, the notion of tax collection in The City keeps getting dropped from readables and conversations, but there are quite a few unused files on the matter. Maybe the Baron knows of something about Blackbrook that some there find a great threat to themselves, or maybe he stole some magical construct as a spoil of war and it's in a warehouse crate à la Raiders of the Lost Ark (kidding there). The pirates could become a distraction requiring military attention, the "Coast Guard" could be high on Captain Davidson's tainted "spice", and too much money and attention could be poured into the sea-battles, while strings are pulled from within the Baron's household. Every Thief game has a puppet or puppets.
massimilianogoi on 5/5/2009 at 02:40
Quote Posted by jtr7
Yeah, the Light Gem in all its phases. I'll be working on the TDS version at some point down the road.
Friendly: The Baron could become dictatorial, or go insane and have someone else making decisions in his stead (as in a "power behind the throne storyline), or any slightly exaggerated real life scenario of oppressive government. Taxing people to death, for instance. Derived from real history and given a Thiefy twist. Maybe a mole from Blackbrook assimilated into the City Council to subtly undermine the Baron (it must not seem like something out of Star Trek or Star Wars!), because they aren't happy with the outcome of the war, and the second twist is they are not from the Blackbrook government, but a rebellion with some scheme that was undone or hindered. Blackbrook has magical constructs and there's something about their elemental crystals for them to be imported into The City, as The City has plenty, and who's been using them and for what, anyway? For whatever reason, the notion of tax collection in The City keeps getting dropped from readables and conversations, but there are quite a few unused files on the matter. Maybe the Baron knows of something about Blackbrook that some there find a great threat to themselves, or maybe he stole some magical construct as a spoil of war and it's in a warehouse crate à la
Raiders of the Lost Ark (kidding there). The pirates could become a distraction requiring military attention, the "Coast Guard" could be high on Captain Davidson's tainted "spice", and too much money and attention could be poured into the sea-battles, while strings are pulled from within the Baron's household. Every Thief game has a puppet or puppets.
This is just what I've been thinking for! In fact, the coming back of the Baron, it would be a new faction, the one of the
Soldiers, which what makes part the Benny's major brother.
The lightgem in Thief 2 style was already done by someone before, try to watch (
http://darkfate.ru/?show=files/editors/t3ed/thief3mod/screenshots) here
