Brazilian Taffer on 11/10/2009 at 11:52
A bit too late, but well, in my opinion, Thief 3 left a BIG opening for a sequel.
Some may say that the Keepers would cease to exist, and the peace between the Hammers and the Pagans will last.
That's wrong IMO, because if you played all the game, you would notice that in the later missions the city becomes full of enemies that attack enemies/everything on sight. As the Hammer/Pagan, Keeper Enforcers and the Gargoyles.
That would leave chaos in the city for some time. People would become fearfull and paranoid, all the great organizations and Orders have been terribly weakened. The City Watch, The Wardens, The Hand Brotherhood and Necromancers (But I think we've seen to little of them to say anything) The Hammers and The Pagans could find that the time is right to take their enemies out of the game (litteraly). As the Random Keeper Scribe said on the end "What will become of the City without us?" Immagine if the Baron returned from his battle in Blackbrook after all that mess.
About Garrett becoming a Keeper... Well, just because he saved the world and because now he has a key on his hand doesn't means much. Okay, Okay.. he said "It's not a easy thing see a Keeper" But that really doesn't means much.
About the "prequel". Really, nothing much happened between Keepers Training > Thief 1 > Thief 2 > Thief 3. Okay, maybe between Thief 2 and 3 happened something. To those who played the games, there are several proves of it. For instance, he never dealt with undead before the Break From Cragscleft. "I wonder how a Heretic like me can get his hands on some holy water.
Well, and finally, I think that our rope arrows aren't coming back, as the first-person only. These changes make the game easier and more charming to outsiders. Not like Classic Thief Fans purcheased more Thief 3 boxes than normal consumers. Not meaning that I don't want a classic game with a better engine. I WANT it, but it's almost clear we're not getting it. Well, only future tells the truth.
About that, Thief 3 is a good game. Not perfect, but very good. Some say "it's bad" only because played the others and are adept of "Thing never change and shouldn't." The market changed. And I doubt it would change for "good".
massimilianogoi on 11/10/2009 at 14:50
Well, this great post deservers a great reponse :wot:
Quote Posted by Brazilian Taffer
A bit too late, but well, in my opinion, Thief 3 left a BIG opening for a sequel.
Some may say that the Keepers would cease to exist, and the peace between the Hammers and the Pagans will last.
That's wrong IMO, because if you played all the game, you would notice that in the later missions the city becomes
full of enemies that attack enemies/everything on sight. As the Hammer/Pagan, Keeper Enforcers and the Gargoyles.That would leave chaos in the city for some time. People would become fearfull and paranoid, all the great organizations and Orders have been terribly weakened.
Yes!! Exactly.
Quote Posted by Brazilian Taffer
The City Watch, The Wardens, The Hand Brotherhood and Necromancers (But I think we've seen to little of them to say anything)
Yes, exactly.
Quote Posted by Brazilian Taffer
The Hammers and The Pagans could find that the time is right to take their enemies out of the game (litteraly). As the Random Keeper Scribe said on the end
"What will become of the City without us?" Immagine if the Baron returned from his battle in Blackbrook after all that mess.
Yes, exactly another time!! :eek: I think it's time the famous Baron goes back home. So we will have alot of new incentives and cues.
Quote Posted by Brazilian Taffer
About Garrett becoming a Keeper... Well, just because he saved the world and because now he has a key on his hand doesn't means much.
Okay, Okay.. he said "It's not a easy thing see a Keeper" But that really doesn't means much.Permit me to disagree: Garrett now is
the First Keeper, since Orland is dead. So everyone must have respect for him. And this time Gamall were explicit, it/she killed everyone stands in front of it/her, like guards, hammers,priests,pagans, commoners. So seeing and testifying that Garrett, when he placed the last artifact on the fountain (that is in a public place), saved everyone from its/her assassin wills, Garrett would become well-known, and admired by the folk. So, in facts, he could stop his work of Thief, except for some nostalgia hit. :p But if the story continues with him as protagonist, let's see what they will have for us! :)
Quote Posted by Brazilian Taffer
About the "prequel". Really, nothing much happened between Keepers Training > Thief 1 > Thief 2 > Thief 3. Okay, maybe between Thief 2 and 3 happened something. To those who played the games, there are several proves of it.
And we never see in T3 mechanists robots and/or facilities and/or buildings. But just some rusty pipes and deactivated boilers and generator (Cradle and Pagans Lair). Maybe it's just a choice to get the game more "naif" and darker, more common to what can be a typical horror movies scenario. You said it, the marketing makes its own game.
Quote Posted by Brazilian Taffer
For instance, he never dealt with undead before the Break From Cragscleft. "I wonder how a Heretic like me can get his hands on some holy water.
Never heard this phrase, or I don't remember it, but it's very funny! haha :laff:
Quote Posted by Brazilian Taffer
Well, and finally, I think that our rope arrows aren't coming back, as the first-person only. These changes make the game easier and more charming to outsiders. Not like Classic Thief Fans purcheased more Thief 3 boxes than normal consumers. Not meaning that I don't want a classic game with a better engine. I WANT it, but it's almost clear we're not getting it. Well, only future tells the truth.
Well, here I hope you are wrong, buddy :tsktsk: VERY wrong! Rope arrows and other goodies as swimming and scouting orb are part of the soul IN GAME. So they haven't to be eliminated. I hope they will take them again, instead.
Quote Posted by Brazilian Taffer
About that, Thief 3 is a good game. Not perfect, but very good.
I still think that it's the best one, for the ambientations: excelent design, dynamic lights, ragdoll, and systems of physic collisions makes the game very realistic. Plus the characters were designed very well for the time. Still today T3 can compete, in matter of engine, with some more modern game and havoking (Prince of Persia, for example, or some other horrible titles). And, all told, it could be better Oblivion too (I mean the version of the same generation), if only the designer would have implemented just a bit more stuffs, and if they weren't limited by that fool X-Box limitations. :nono:
Stolen on 11/10/2009 at 16:51
I'd like to play as a continuation from Thief 3, perhaps not directly but a few years down the line showing the reform of The Keepers and Garrett in his new role as The First Keeper but unlike Orland keeping his hand in and performing critical missions so that he doesn't lose touch with what's really going on and ultimately what he's really good at.
If you played Garrett you could see how The Keepers train, you'd have the run of all The Keeper buildings in the city allowing you to pick up more history of the Keepers, Pagans, Mechanists the City etc.
Each mission could require Garrett to be briefed by one of the senior Keepers, perhaps in buildings dotted around the City. Sometimes things would go wrong and you'd have to fix it or other times a task seems impossible so Garrett chooses to do it (I think he likes the challenge).
It'd be handy if it was based on an engine like the Crysis engine because you could make large maps with sprawling architecture and buildings that were enterable without huge loading times plus you could emulate and expand on the best points of a city hub with a trade district, maybe even some daylight hours if you really needed to.
Personally I'd want to keep the child from the end of Thief 3 as an upcoming protege, someone who looks up to Garrett would be a sort of surrogate child not that he's real friendly but perhaps has the paternal bond because the kid thinks he's great.
You could choose the difficulty of the mission not in a menu but by conversation with the senior Keepers because as The First Keeper it seems unlikely that you'll suddenly be strapped for cash or equipment. So if the senior Keeper offers a diversion or to pay to get a hint from some source you can accept or decline as you see fit and if information comes to light during conversations either in person or overheard about riches and jewellery you could choose to add them to your objectives list on the fly.
Additionally with a current generation graphics engine there's no reason why you can't have far more complex scenarios involving fully rendered surrounding streets, physics for rope swinging / jumping and fully destructible furniture etc.
Just some ideas while thinking about Thief 4, what do you guys think? To be honest you could rebuild Thief 1, 2 and 3 in a new graphics engine and add some Havoc physics and charge me £120 for three 'new' games and I'd still buy them but perhaps as technology and Garrett have evolved quite a bit since the first game it's time for the fourth to reflect this and expand.
jtr7 on 11/10/2009 at 23:52
You think the Keepers alive after TDS are not impotent fiorever as the game said they would be several times? You realize that generations had been blinded to critical prophecies due to Gamall's theft of major books from the Libraries, and that now there are no books at all to see the future at all? No prophecies means no instructions for which actions to take, no idea how to undo future corruption. Garrett's role as One True Keeper is finished. He ended the corruption that no other Keeper would or could do, and this is why he was the One. No Glyphs, no instructions, no future. The means by which the Keepers operated are gone, or exposed for all to see. Garrett never wanted the Glyphs, tried to forget the Glyphs, and had no qualms about destroying the Keeper Order, saying if he ever saw another Glyph it would be too soon. The Keepers are nothing but connections and informants, but now they have to seek regular employment.
If it took the exceptional Garrett 8-12 years for his training before he was even granted use of the Glyphs--which he refused and then left the Order, accepting them only in TDS, turning right around and destroying them--what kind of training do you think he can offer, and why do you think he even wants to take a leadership role, away from thieving?:confused: No Glyphs no Keepers. You haven't paid attention to the role of the Keepers and how Garrett would have done nothing to save The City without them pushing him all the way according to their Prophecies--now gone. According to TDS..."forever". So these generations should die off first, methinks.
This does not mean the ex-Keepers don't have a continuing role to play, just not ever like they had been anymore. Don't forget there are plenty of prophetic visions all over the place to glean from, but they usually aren't as accurate or thorough, nor have a whole group of Elders to come up with the best guess. Historians and data gathering from all their connections and being able to influence directly instead of indirectly literally "by the book(s)".
Brazilian Taffer on 12/10/2009 at 13:31
Quote Posted by jtr7
If it took the exceptional Garrett 8-12 years for his training before he was even granted use of the Glyphs--which he refused and then left the Order, accepting them only in TDS, turning right around and destroying them--what kind of training do you think he can offer, and why do you think he even wants to take a leadership role, away from thieving?:confused: No Glyphs no Keepers. You haven't paid attention to the role of the Keepers and how Garrett would have done nothing to save The City without them pushing him all the way according to their Prophecies--now gone. According to TDS..."forever". So these generations should die off first, methinks.
Exactly. Garrett doesn't wants anything, really anything with Keepers. He didn't even when they had glyphs and power, so why now?
And besides, now that their Hidden Compound full of gold and criminals. (Yes! Criminals, the compound must be full of training rooms, books, and etc about thieving) The City Watch wll pay them a visit. Not meaning that all of them will be arrested, but the Scribes will be largely unable to hide themselves.
Their Order is as good as dead, I think. They would never find a hiding place as good as the one they had. And they were USED to it. They won't adapt in time, I think.
If they manage to adapt to their new life, they will be a small order. And without their glyphs they will be unable to predict future and etc.
Quote Posted by massimilianogoi
Permit me to disagree: Garrett now is
the First Keeper, since Orland is dead. So everyone must have respect for him. And this time Gamall were explicit, it/she killed everyone stands in front of it/her, like guards, hammers,priests,pagans, commoners. So seeing and testifying that Garrett, when he placed the last artifact on the fountain (that is in a public place), saved everyone from its/her assassin wills, Garrett would become well-known, and admired by the folk. So, in facts, he could stop his work of Thief, except for some nostalgia hit. :p But if the story continues with him as protagonist, let's see what they will have for us! :)
Well, good point, he IS the First Keeper. But that doesn't means that he WANT to become the First Keeper, I think he doesn't want anything with the Keepers. And sincerely, no one can force him to become the First Keeper. (Try forcing someone to become your leader!)
Quote Posted by massimilianogoi
Never heard this phrase, or I don't remember it, but it's very funny! haha :laff:
It's from the briefing of "Down in the Bonehoard"
Quote Posted by massimilianogoi
Well, here I hope you are wrong, buddy :tsktsk: VERY wrong! Rope arrows and other goodies as swimming and scouting orb are part of the soul IN GAME. So they haven't to be eliminated. I hope they will take them again, instead.
Well, I'm a pessimist. Ignore that part.
P.S.: I voted "A new adventure with Garrett in the same old but good style"
miguel on 15/10/2009 at 19:05
Garrett is getting too old guys, we need a game where you could play with both characters ?
sNeaksieGarrett on 15/10/2009 at 20:41
huh?
jtr7 on 16/10/2009 at 00:35
The games suggest that Garrett's no older than his early thirties. He left the Keepers in his early twenties, and any years added to make him "old" would've had to pass before the Bafford job. In all the games, he got better and better and more skilled. Now that he's changed The City radically, and the future is unwritten, he's now honed and ready for the new horrible menace in the great unwritten.:cool:
massimilianogoi on 21/10/2009 at 02:53
Hmmm... about twenties and thirties... some reference? Very interesting thing.
So more or less, we are coevals! What a magic moment :D
massimilianogoi on 21/10/2009 at 02:57
Quote Posted by Shadowriku95
What about a new city, and travel by boat (Not big ones, like rowing boats or summut) But play Garrett again...So awesome !
This could be a nice idea!! Indeed!! :thumb:
I just can imagine Garrett in the fogging water in the river like Tamigi, paddling to reach a lateral pack in the darkness, under a bridge, and the light of a tavern on the near street.
