Internet porn and the real life: Just like in the movies... - by Kolya
Kolya on 4/2/2011 at 13:20
The New York Magazine has just released 2 interesting features on how the internet, specifically internet porn, shapes the relationships of men ((
http://nymag.com/news/features/70976/) He's Just Not That Into Anyone) and kids ((
http://nymag.com/news/features/70977/) They Know What Boys Want).
One interesting point I found that in both articles women and young girls concordantly said that their partners bring expectations to bed that are clearly shaped by online porn (
"Jesus fucking Christ, what the fuck kind of stupid porn have you been watching? Did you just smack my kitty?") and how they feel obliged to turn up the dial, to keep up with the other woman on the screen. Be it a porn star or just a class mate who sends naked pictures of herself to the boys.
Another related though possibly less obvious point was that many men described how internet porn made their real life sex less enjoyable in comparison. We're talking faked male orgasms and secret pseudo-relationships with CuteKasey, Milena, Raven and SweetGeorgia.
That makes the hope of some 12 year old Alexa ("Once they get older, they'll grow out of it.") seem rather unlikely.
I liked how the articles did not drum on some "lost innocence" for the kids or try to argue against porn for adult males. But instead they showed the influence that clearly is there and that we as boys and men should at least be aware of.
the_grip on 4/2/2011 at 14:46
Most guys I grew up with (including myself) saw porn at an early age. I'm 35 years old so that was pre-Internet.
I think if some guy (or gal) is unable to emotionally attach to their partner in sex (assuming that is the goal) then the issue runs deeper than simply porn on the Internet. If porn wasn't there, they'd still have issues... it is just that there wouldn't be some reporter writing about it.
Perhaps there could be some issue with young kids watching too much porn - but there are many other issues including how the children were raised/are being raised/etc. etc. The conservative knee-jerk reaction against porn can be very simple-minded. In yesteryear, the issue was alcohol, card playing, and dancing. Now it's porn. Next generation it will be something else, too.
Aerothorn on 4/2/2011 at 15:00
Scariest part:
"Scientists speculate that a dopamine-oxytocin combo is released in the brain during orgasm, acting as a “biochemical love potion,” as behavioral therapist Andrea Kuszewski calls it. It’s the reason after having sex with someone, you’re probably more inclined to form an emotional attachment. But you don’t have to actually have sex in order to get those neurotransmitters firing. When you watch porn, “you’re bonding with it,” Kuszewski says. “And those chemicals make you want to keep coming back to have that feeling.” Which allows men not only to get off on porn but to potentially develop a neurological attachment to it. They can, in essence, date porn."
Obviously it's easy for this to spiral into a moral panic, but the fact remains the porn is one of these weird things which is seemingly used extensively by the vast majority of males (especially younger ones, i.e. my age!) and yet is generally not discussed, like the large untouchable open secret. Being a strong believer in the "examined life," this has always been somewhat alarming to me, and if there are long-term negative effects to extensive engagement with porn, there's even more pressure for society to start having a conversation about it. Of course, that can't really happen due to the extreme judgment broader American society puts on any form of "perversion," so yeah, we're basically screwed.
Kolya on 4/2/2011 at 15:15
Yeah, you would expect that given how much porn is obviously consumed we wouldn't have to discuss IF there are effects but could concentrate on what they are, without pointing fingers or anything like that.
Koki on 4/2/2011 at 15:50
Quote Posted by Kolya
and how they feel obliged to turn up the dial, to keep up with the other woman on the screen. Be it a porn star or just a class mate who sends naked pictures of herself to the boys.
Everybody wins!
the_grip on 4/2/2011 at 16:23
After reading my post above... I do want to say that I'm not an advocate of porn. I really am neutral on it and don't care either way. However, I typically don't trust anti-porn stuff because it usually is some form of religious moralism in disguise.
I also don't think large quantities of porn for kids or even young teens would be a good idea... just to clarify.
That said, I do think that the problems people associate to porn usually are not porn-caused. Porn is just the outlet for these issues. Instead of bashing porn, perhaps nuturing an environment of openness, trust, and honesty would be better?
Lastly, I doubt people "bond" to porn as quoted above. Masturbation happens all the time with men (and women) at young ages (and well into adulthood), with or without porn. I suppose these are "bonding" with something else? The issue is hardly this simple.
Some of the articles above do make good points, for example:
Quote:
The initial symptom for a lot of guys who frequently find themselves bookmarking their favorite illicit clips appears to be a waning desire for their partners.
i.e. porn is not the issue, the issue is the guy won't suck it up and be honest
demagogue on 4/2/2011 at 17:51
The part I don't like about the internet porn phenomenon is that it's opened such a huge market that it's contributed to sex slavery, both in facilitating the prostitution and in having a massive side-market for supporting it. A *lot* of porn is made by women already being coerced into prostitution, and a lot more women are being coerced into it because of the market compared to without it.
And any industry gets an astronomical boost when it gets mainstreamed and normal, suburban middle-class folk are the ones throwing gobs of cash at it. Compared to that kind of thing going on, worries about the user side of the equation just seem to pale in comparison.
But since it is so widespread and mainstreamed, I don't doubt that there will be sociological effects over the next generation, and there's already been effects; not necessarily simple black-and-white "good" or "bad" effects like you say, but noticeable effects. I'll trust the experts to do the empirical work on that, though.
My basic libertarian sentiment is to let people have whatever way of life they want, as long as it's not illegal or harming anyone, and everything is consensual. So that's why most of my attention is on making sure there isn't real harm going on, without worrying as much about the cultural side of it.
As for me personally, I've been trying to not get too absorbed into a "virtual" or "insular" lifestyle and stay connected to a real world lifestyle, and not getting carried away with porn is just one aspect of that ... also like cooking more, reading the newspaper more, getting out or together with friends more, etc. I just feel more alive when I don't feel cramped up in my own little bubble.
the_grip on 4/2/2011 at 19:21
Quote Posted by demagogue
The part I don't like about the internet porn phenomenon is that it's opened such a huge market that it's contributed to sex slavery, both in facilitating the prostitution and in having a massive side-market for supporting it. A *lot* of porn is made by women already being coerced into prostitution, and a lot more women are being coerced into it because of the market compared to without it.
demagogue, what you describe is certainly terrible, but is it accurate? Can we also be certain that the existence of porn actually increases women coerced into prostitution?
I doubt it. I'm not talking about back alley made illegal porn - I'm talking the main mainstream stuff that can be bought at retail store and shown in clips all over the Internet.
In fact, I think muddying the water like this is misleading and inaccurate. It is the Internet that has made porn more widespread which in turn has made more coercion into prostitution, right? You see where this logic goes?
The problem with this argument is that you are approaching it with the preconception that porn actually contributes to illegal and horrible activities. This is not true, or at least it has not been shown to be a true statement. Illegal porn perhaps uses these methods, but wouldn't illegal porn exist regardless of the porn industry simply because the Internet can allow for its widespread transfer?
So, following the logic here, we need to shut down the Internet to avoid the ills of porn, correct?
See where I'm going here? Maybe I'm off base, but I think there is a preconception to this argument that porn is ultimately some massive ill that contributes to the detriment of society. To which, in turn, I say prove that it is strictly porn that is the issue here and the cause of the problem.
the_grip on 4/2/2011 at 19:29
The other issue here that is the elephant in the room is what about all of the "well-adjusted" people in the world who have watched porn yet carry on with what is considered a normal and healthy life?
What is the ratio of these ill-affected people vs. "well-adjusted" people, and is porn the cause of the ill-adjustment?
Additionally, who defines what "well-adjusted" is vs. ill-adjusted? This ties back to what I was saying above... the problem most of these people have is that they are unhappy and/or lying in their real lives, and porn is the outlet for their escape. The obvious solution is to be honest in one's life.
Koki on 4/2/2011 at 21:44
Quote Posted by demagogue
The part I don't like about the internet porn phenomenon is that it's opened such a huge market that it's contributed to sex slavery
My pick would be something like "pop-up windows" but sex slavery was my second choice, honest.
