Melan on 1/9/2010 at 11:31
I bet a lot more people in 1998 played Solitaire and Minesweeper than Quake2, Half Life or anything else. They just weren't as talked about as Farmville is now.
Slamelov on 1/9/2010 at 11:46
And Farmville is a more complex game than Call of Duty :D
Thirith on 1/9/2010 at 11:48
I'm not sure I buy this whole "Casual games are killing real gaming", although I'm willing to be swayed by hard evidence.
On the whole, would people who play casual games to the exclusion of other games play these other games if there weren't the casual fare? In addition, I know a couple of people for whom casual games were a sort of 'gateway drug' and now they may not be big-time <insert non-casual title here> players, but they do play the occasional Half-Life. Finally, I'm sure I'm not the only hardcore, look-at-my-e-balls-and-despair gamer who still likes the occasional round of this or that casual game.
That Tim Willits quote strikes me as childish and silly... even though I like the image of John Carmack flying off on a rocket, giving Earth the finger.
nicked on 1/9/2010 at 12:23
Quote Posted by Koki
I knew you'd say that, so I checked out some other game sales in that period. Q2 sold over a million, for example.
"for us"
What jtr said.
And yeah, "Casual gaming is killing hardcore gaming" is as fundamentally flawed a statement as "PC gaming is dead." My wife may be addicted to Peggle, but that doesn't mean she'd be joining me for a few rounds of Unreal Tournament if she wasn't.
d'Spair on 1/9/2010 at 12:36
It's the enlightning interview overall.
Quote:
Over the years people usually realize and accept both errors and successes committed in the past. Looking Glass main successes are evident, but what about errors?We surely made many errors over the 10 years we were in business. All companies do; more so if they do anything interesting. We did try to learn from our errors.
Some of the errors we made...
- We should have dialed back somewhat the level of depth and complexity we put in some of our games, and put more emphasis on accessibility. We did learn from this, and Thief was the result.
- We did not put sufficient emphasis on pure visual pizzazz for many of our games. Fight Unlimited was an exception; but for our other titles the level visual eye candy, and providing fast and smooth frame rates, was not on par with the blockbusters of the time. This hurt our sales.
- We spread ourselves too thin in terms of genres. Nearly every blockbuster studio of that time had a tight focus, such as only doing PC first-person shooters, as often as not just a single franchise. We did 3D fantasy games, 3D science fiction games, flight simulators, sports games, and others genres. In hindsight, we were slightly crazed to try to tackle such a wide palette as a small company, and it meant that we could not build the level of expertise in any single genre as we otherwise could.
- We were undercapitalized for what we were trying to do. As an small but ambitious studio we tried to push ourselves and do a lot; but often with not quite enough capital. It was a risky strategy that ultimately contributed to our demise.
I could go on, but that's probably enough to mention for now.
I mean, thanks God history can't be undone. If LG did things differently in order to avoid 'mistakes', we would never have their phenomenal games as we know them now. I'm quite sure about this because the man who is speaking is currently working on social games for Facebook.
Quote:
Time ago, Warren Spector defined both 'Thief' and 'Deus Ex' as 'immersion simulators'. Would you suggest us where to find them today?
At Looking Glass we called this approach “immersive reality”, but Warren's term is equally apt. It came out of some of us having worked on flight simulators in the 1980's, and then applying some of what we learned about this genre to Ultima Underworld and System Shock. In flight simulators you bend backwards to give the player as much freedom and control as you can in the simulation, creating a sort of game play “sandbox”. To some degree games such as the Sims and GTA took a similar approach.
...
Anyway, to answer your question I believe that elements of “immersion simulators” can still be found today in a variety of games, but games that have the all-out focus on this approach are few and far between. This is in part because of the belief, perhaps correct, that full-out expressions of this game play style are suited only for harder core gamers, and again, it is hard to justify modern game budgets for just this audience. On a related note, there are notably fewer flight simulators and racing simulators today than ten years ago for much the same reason.
This is the highlight. I could never know that when Warren Spector invented the 'immersive
simulatior' term, he meant it as literally as it now seems. I could not imagine that immersive sim games are so closely tied to the traditional simulation games.
Quote:
We believe games can be not only entertainment but a fantastic way for storytelling, offering many possibilities for singular artistic expression. Looking Glass showed that, but there's still a long way to go in terms of both comparison with the quality of movie scripts, and respect as a truly artistic medium at the same level. What does it take to change this?Absolutely agree that games have a long way to go to match the level storytelling and character development that a good film can deliver. Part of it is an inherent limitation of the interactive media. It is far easier to tell an story and communicate character in a liner media such as a film or a book. Once you go interactive and non-liner, you introduce all sorts of hurdles, and game designers have not yet found a way to level to fully compensate.
Well, this is another proof of my strong belief that if video games are going to continue to strive for being interactive films, they will degrade to the format of fat-free sitcom replacements with no ambition to gain a special spot in the modern art. Ebert will be happy. But that's what we see now: modern hardcore games are becoming less and less Games in the traditional mechanical meaning, and more and more movies with occasional option to press a button at a given moment. This is a creative catastrophy for the medium.
d'Spair on 1/9/2010 at 12:46
Quote Posted by nicked
And yeah, "Casual gaming is killing hardcore gaming" is as fundamentally flawed a statement as "PC gaming is dead." My wife may be addicted to Peggle, but that doesn't mean she'd be joining me for a few rounds of Unreal Tournament if she wasn't.
It IS killing. In Russia, almost every single studio that was working on hardcore SP games 10 years ago is now working with casual audience or online games. I think this trend is happening all around the world. The 'hardcore/mainstream' relation has changed during the last few years. 10 years ago, Thief was hardcore and Doom was mainstream. Now, Call of Duty is hardcore and FarmVille is mainstream.
PC gaming IS dead in its traditional state. PC gaming has been known for ages as the platform for game design innovation, immersive games and rich single-player experience. Looking Glass was a PCgames studio. Bethesda was formed as a PC games studio. Current immersive games that are being enjoyed all around TTLG (Stalker, BioShock - well, almost all around TTLG in case with this one, - Dark Messiah) are either PC only or multiplatform, but originated from PC games design concepts.
PC gaming now is MMO games like WOW and casual/social games now. Hardcore SP games are console games these days.
Slamelov on 1/9/2010 at 13:44
Quote Posted by d'Spair
It's the enlightning interview overall.
This is the highlight. I could never know that when Warren Spector invented the 'immersive
simulatior' term, he meant it as literally as it now seems. I could not imagine that immersive sim games are so closely tied to the traditional simulation games.
.
Warren Spector did not invented the "inmersive simulations", he only defined it, as the interview says.
demagogue on 1/9/2010 at 14:04
Quote Posted by Melan
I bet a lot more people in 1998 played Solitaire and Minesweeper than Quake2, Half Life or anything else. They just weren't as talked about as Farmville is now.
Those games weren't making money hand over fist like Farmville, et al, are though. Casual gaming has always been around; but adding the microtransactions element to it has really skyrocketed it to a whole new and terrifying level.
d'Spair on 1/9/2010 at 14:07
Quote Posted by Slamelov
Warren Spector did not invented the "inmersive simulations", he only defined it, as the interview says.
You'd better read once again what you were quoting.
Koki on 1/9/2010 at 14:09
Quote Posted by 242
Doesn't that mean he's right?
Uh, no? If Thief was a "major hit" with 500k copies, what would Quake 2 with one million be? And people didn't even care about Q2 all that much, really. As soon as new online FPS was done they dropped it, it never had the staying power that, say, Tribes did.
And what d'Spair said.