SolidAndShade on 27/7/2006 at 09:23
Hey everyone,
I remember playing the Thief games years ago, and never would have imagined that there's still such a dedicated online community. It's been a lot of fun reading everyone's speculations on the game. My recent playthrough of TDP gave me some ideas regarding the true nature of the Eye and Constantine's use for it. There isn't much in-game material to explicitly support any of this; it just comes from inferences I made.
The Invisible World:
Separate from the physical Thief world is a multi-tiered spirit world. Everything in this spirit world reflects the consciousness of the creatures living in the physical world. At the lower levels, the spirit world reflects the physical shape of the world as its inhabitants know it. At higher levels dwell incarnate ideas, the souls of the dead, and other manifestations of thought and emotion. At the highest levels of this astral world dwell god-forms like the Builder and Trickster.
Constantine and Viktoria:
My theory is that these two began their lives as ordinary humans with great talent for magic. After many years of magical study, they decided to seek greater power by bonding their souls to powerful god-forms in the astral world, namely the Trickster and the Queen of the Woods. This made them into avatars of a sort, embodiments of the dieties without those beings' full power.
The Eye:
Properly called the Eye Between Worlds. A piece of spiritual technology created ages ago, the Eye is an object that exists simultaneously on astral and physical planes. It was created principally to allow sages to look into the astral world, but its very presence tends to "soften" the barrier between the physical world and the stratified astral planes.
We know from the documents in the Haunted Cathedral that when the Hammers took it into the cathedral for study, strange supernatural effects immediately began to occur (it was found floating over the altar every morning). Eventually, a swarm of undead rose and forced the evacuation of the entire area the cathedral occupied. I think this is because the Eye was placed in close proximity to the Hammers' cemetary, and the unquiet spirits that dwelled in the cemetary's astral reflection began coming through the porous astral barrier and took possession of corpses in the physical world. The wards set by the Keepers kept the spiritual infestation promoted by the Eye from spreading further; it is probable that the original creators of the artifact also surrounded it with wards like this to prevent it from causing problems.
Constantine's Ritual:
When its magical powers are modulated through a human eye, the Eye can be used to create gates between the physical world and parts of the Astral, like the Maw of Chaos. When properly charged with magical energy, the Eye can be used to create a conduit to the highest levels of the astral world, where the god-forms dwell. Constantine hoped to use the Eye to promote himself from Trickster avatar to full-fledged god on earth.
Rationale:
I suspect Constantine was originally just a mortal mage because of a few things: the books on magic found in his mansion (wouldn't the Trickster know it all beforehand?), the game's continued referenced to him as "Constantine" rather than "the Trickster" and his reliance on the Eye for any sort of power. He wasn't able to do so much as summon Ratmen or enter the Maw of Chaos before he got his hands on the thing.
Other Theories:
I've toyed with the idea that the Precursors also met their downfall because of the Eye, and that it was created by a society even older than theirs. Perhaps they placed the Eye in an emperor's tomb near a magma channel, and fire and earth elementals started coming through the astral barrier.
Well, let me know what you think of this theory. I came up with most of it while running from Ratmen in Escape!
DarthMRN on 27/7/2006 at 13:56
That is no mean interpretation IMO. Nice thinking, although I'm sure some of the members will drown it in contradictory evidence. That usually happens.
I for one have no better theory at least.
Aedryn on 27/7/2006 at 16:08
I didn't read most of that, but I'd say you're terribly wrong.
funkwich on 27/7/2006 at 18:59
I disagree with the sections on the Eye and the invisible world, but the post does raise some very valid questions that I, too, am interested in. Why is Constantine's power based in the Eye? Taking his "Sword" documents into account (and keeping in mind they may be planted), how much of his power comes from the Eye? What connection exists between the Old Gods and the Sentients? If he becomes divine when it's in his possession, how was it taken away from him? For that matter, why didn't he perform his ritual the last time he had it?
The Hammerites are the earliest known owners in modern history. How they came across it is unknown - since they recognize that it is a weapon of the Pagans, one could guess that they came across it in some raid of a Pagan encampment. If so, why didn't the Trickster use it as he did in TDP? Fifty years ago, the City was nearly as advanced as it is today, so his dissatisfaction with the lack of fear and darkness wouldn't be much changed from its present state. Clearly, any attempt at uncovering the confusing histories of the Eye and the Trickster meet with much contradiction from canon and logic.
For every point Aedryn finds to be incorrect, there are a dozen questions to be raised.
Goldmoon Dawn on 27/7/2006 at 19:03
Quote Posted by SolidAndShade
Constantine's Ritual:
Constantine hoped to use the Eye to promote himself from Trickster avatar to full-fledged god on earth.
Pretty decent stuff, however; The Trickster/Constantine *is/was* a God. The Trickster came first. Constantine was just the front he used in The City.
Goldmoon Dawn on 27/7/2006 at 19:46
Quote Posted by funkwich
Fifty years ago, the City was nearly as advanced as it is today, so his dissatisfaction with the lack of fear and darkness wouldn't be much changed from its present state. Clearly, any attempt at uncovering the confusing histories of the Eye and the Trickster meet with much contradiction from canon and logic.
Remember that "fifty years ago" a cataclysm of sorts wiped things out pretty good, and as any serious crpg fan knows, said cataclysm had nothing to do with The Trickster. :sly:
the_dark_and_clouded on 27/7/2006 at 21:44
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkwichWhy is Constantine's power based in the Eye? Taking his "Sword" documents into account (and keeping in mind they may be planted), how much of his power comes from the Eye? What connection exists between the Old Gods and the Sentients? If he becomes divine when it's in his possession, how was it taken away from him? For that matter, why didn't he perform his ritual the last time he had it?
Legitimate questions for sure. The problem is just we'll never know the answers to them, and I even doubt LG knew them. (After all, they just wanted to create a good computer game and no LotR-style uber-novel where every single attribute of its fictive world is dealt with, didn't they?) ;)
As for SolidAndShade's ideas, they make for a good reading but I doubt a single one of them is a thought Looking Glass actually had when designing the game. It's like with the Bible: zillions of interpretations, all sound kinda nice, but only ~1% of them have anything to do with the original text.
ZylonBane on 27/7/2006 at 21:55
Quote Posted by SolidAndShade
Well, let me know what you think of this theory.
It's not a theory, it's thinly-veiled fanfic.
Goldmoon Dawn on 27/7/2006 at 22:44
I was using the word front in a more plot-related way rather than the physical embodiment of Constantine.
Whether he transformed or doppleganged, it was still his ploy in terms of the story. New face in town... The Trickster is real after all....Only the Hammers believe in the Old Gods...
Ardesco on 27/7/2006 at 23:46
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
doppleganged
That is an AWESOME word! It doesn't get enough use in everyday language. Perhaps this thread can change that? :cheeky:
