Solabusca on 1/8/2006 at 20:28
Let's see, Darth.
Once you're seen, you can't stop the Trickster. You can't hurt him, you can't swap out the Eye, you... well, you're dead, Jim.
Once he's realized you're there, it's just a matter of time. And why not take his time with you? He can go back to what he was doing once your dead.
Gods, by their very nature, have a capacity for terrible cruelty.
.j.
DarthMRN on 1/8/2006 at 20:43
I suppose it can be explained away like that, yes. Who can guess at the nature of gods?
So lets examine another point. Constantine's inability to breach the cathedral. Yeah, Keeper glyphs are powerful shit, no doubt about it. But assuming you are correct, and he actually had godlike power, but never fully exerted it in-game, why would a few puny glyphs stop him?
The Trickster is an old-school fantasy god, no? In my experience, fantasy gods that actually exist and is mentioned in some in-universe religion, usually are of the earth-trembling sort. With that view of him in mind, why would I assume some laughable barrier set up by the Keepers would stop him?
An earthly embodiment, however, that makes a lot more sense. If the limit of Constantine's power was that of a mortal archmage, like SaS suggests, then that would easily explain why he couldnt breach the cathedral or kill Garrett any faster than he did.
Goldmoon Dawn on 1/8/2006 at 21:30
Aside from this having little to do with the original posters fanfic, it really matters little. He may not be godlike, but the game itself sure is! Which in a way kind of makes Trixie more powerful *only if you are absorbed into the gameplay more than just cutscenes*.
Remember that while this story is a cool one, 90 percent of it is while mucking around in the superb Missions. The Missions build the suspense up, so that the Briefings are coherent and memorable. And these are some of the finest Missions for the money.
Sometimes, people think that the Trickster was actually bigger than he was. He was only about six foot eight with horns. In fact, revealing himself to Garrett in a violent fashion is about the only thing he does himself! It was good that such a villain was smote down, especially for past crimes of peace robbing.
Let's just say that The Trickster is dead. :sweat:
I wish SolidAndShade would get back here and shed some light! I think its high time he adds a new section to his first post...
The Trickster:
ZylonBane on 1/8/2006 at 23:31
Quote Posted by DarthMRN
The Trickster is an old-school fantasy god, no? In my experience, fantasy gods that actually exist and is mentioned in some in-universe religion, usually are of the earth-trembling sort.
Your experience apparently doesn't include the (
http://www.theoi.com/Pantheon.html) Greco-Roman pantheon, from which the Trickster is clearly drawn. Such gods, while powerful, are far from omnipotent. And for every Zeus or Poseidon, there are dozens of lesser gods.
Werewolfintheshadows on 2/8/2006 at 01:30
Zylon can you explain how exactly the trickster is drawn from the greco-roman pantheon?
Besides that I just don't grasp how, while the trickster refers to himself as a god and is referred to as a god and an "old god", he doesn't quite behave like one. I can believe he is the woodsie lord, and a tough, demi-god perhaps, but the fact his power is clearly limited until he has the eye, and even then his ability to kill garrett was meek (whether this was because the engine wouldnt allow or ttlg wanted it that way), he didn't have very keen senses, super speed, or anything or immense and mythical power in godlike proportion. Woodsie lord yes, a god, I don't really think so. If the trickster can be killed and indeed die, and his soul go to heaven or hell or whatever, and not be trapped inside the artifact the eye or waiting in some other realm to return, he can't possibly be a god. I'm sticking to my, "he's one tough ass egotistical demon" viewpoint.
Just playing through the mage towers, and im shocked and slightly embarassed at how weak and lame the mages are.....sigh
ZylonBane on 2/8/2006 at 02:07
Quote Posted by Werewolfintheshadows
Zylon can you explain how exactly the trickster is drawn from the greco-roman pantheon?
(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_%28mythology%29) Is it really necessary to explain the bleeding obvious?
Goldmoon Dawn on 2/8/2006 at 02:07
Noone has really stated that The Trickster is an all knowing all powerful adversary. Some people seem more than displeased that he isnt though. Oh well, just gonna hafta live with it!
Not sure why the focus landed where it has, but it should go without saying that the Tricksters true power in this game lies in the unknown. If you arent scared by his tactics of suspense and surprise, then it just didnt work.
Thats kind of how the whole game works. If it werent for the suspense and immersion in the Missions, the game wouldnt be what it is at all!
I still think its amazing how some people (not you) start going on and on when they obviously havent grasped the entire plot outline yet. Which is understandable as the story is very tricky and hard to put together at first. Even first hand accounts cant fill in the gaps of the knowledge found playing in game.
This whole thing started because SolidAndShade seemed to completely miss the part where Constantine becomes the Trickster halfway through the game.
I apologise if I misread or underestimated. Thats one of the problems with talking about a game thats almost 10 years old. Its hard to tell who has played through it properly and who just saw the cutscenes (Vincent).
Overall, I am pleased with the ideas presented, as long as they dont alter known story.
:p
Aedryn on 2/8/2006 at 02:26
Quote Posted by Werewolfintheshadows
he didn't have very keen senses, super speed, or anything or immense and mythical power in godlike proportion.
He was only able to open a portal to his realm(dimension, pocket plane, ect.). And he could have easily killed Garrett if he wanted to(and does if he sees you). He more than likely didn't kill Garrett when he had the chance because he didn't view Garrett as a real threat.
Quote:
If the trickster can be killed and indeed die,... he can't possibly be a god.
Gods can be killed, it's just alot harder than lesser beings. The thing is most people in this thread think all gods are omnipotent and omniscient in the Judeo-Christian fasion as Zylon said before.
Thankfully the Trickster is neither as
there would be no story or game if he had limitless power.
Solabusca on 2/8/2006 at 05:47
Not to mention a little bit of (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus) Dionysos thrown into the mix. He AM the Meadsmaker and them Jacksberry, after all.
Oh, and interestingly enough, Dionysos was killed. More than once, depending on which myths you read.
Fancy that, hmmm?
.j.
Jarkko Ranta on 2/8/2006 at 06:04
Quote Posted by DarthMRN
I suppose it can be explained away like that, yes. Who can guess at the nature of gods?
So lets examine another point. Constantine's inability to breach the cathedral. Yeah, Keeper glyphs are powerful shit, no doubt about it. But assuming you are correct, and he actually had godlike power, but never fully exerted it in-game, why would a few puny glyphs stop him?
The Trickster is an old-school fantasy god, no? In my experience, fantasy gods that actually exist and is mentioned in some in-universe religion, usually are of the earth-trembling sort. With that view of him in mind, why would I assume some laughable barrier set up by the Keepers would stop him?
An earthly embodiment, however, that makes a lot more sense. If the limit of Constantine's power was that of a mortal archmage, like SaS suggests, then that would easily explain why he couldnt breach the cathedral
or kill Garrett any faster than he did.
Maybe The Trickster is weaker than before due the lack of followers (aka Hammers kicked his hairy butt out into the Maw and scattered his cult/religion). I've always valued the Bonehoard's movie 'cause it's the best movie to see His heart, history and motives, even better than the one after RTTC. And the books in Conman's manor about the "Trickster's world" before humans quited to fear him.
This thread is going a bit DaVinci Code-conspiracy... Let's just play along the Trickster is a god, 'cause that's what Looking Glass has given us.
PS: Shouldn't this be Spoiler-alerted? I always believed that Constantine was a henchman that tried to summon the Trickster back to the world. I was a bit shocked when that Man with big M grew horns...
