sparhawk on 23/3/2006 at 21:48
Quote Posted by BR796164
And honestly, if you forget about the Thief universe for a moment,
"The Dark Project" sounds like a good title of some B-class mysterious thriller
made for video market.
Hmmm. You may be right, but I must say that, when I first found that title, I was quite intrigued by it. I didn't know anything about it, not even that it was a game, so it piqued my interested just because of that title. Since it was name "... Project" I even thought it might have something to do with some secret project that I accidently stumbled upon. :)
So considering that, for me it was definitely a good title.
T-Smith on 23/3/2006 at 22:33
On the subject of the title 'The Dark Project', it was called that because it was a 'Project' made from the 'Dark' engine, wasn't it? As far as I recall, the game was originally just called 'The Dark Project', prior to the Thief title being thought up.
Shoshin on 23/3/2006 at 23:57
Quote Posted by T-Smith
Quite right. As far as I recall, the reason for calling id Deadly Shadows was just for the 'cool' factor, just like why they gave Garrett an ugly scar. I guess large, horrible scars that don't make sense continuity wise are 'cool'.
Well, as it turns out it does make sense continuity-wise. Garrett had his eye ripped out by a wood nymph in The Dark Project. Now, I'm no doctor, but I'm guessing that having your eye ripped out might leave a little tissue damage that could result in some scarring. Did it need to be as large a scar as it was? Probably not, but to claim that the scar was a continuity error just means you aren't paying attention.
Kovitlac on 24/3/2006 at 00:24
It was his right eye, wasn't it? That's what it looks like when playing. It's funny that on the back of the game box it's his left one. Yet it's the right on during loading. Hmm, I wonder if they simply flopped images...;)
T-Smith on 24/3/2006 at 01:46
Quote Posted by Shoshin
Well, as it turns out it does make sense continuity-wise. Garrett had his eye ripped out by a wood nymph in The Dark Project. Now, I'm no doctor, but I'm guessing that having your eye ripped out might leave a little tissue damage that could result in some scarring. Did it need to be as large a scar as it was? Probably not, but to claim that the scar was a continuity error just means you aren't paying attention.
No doubt having your eye ripped out would leave tissue damage. But it's the kind of scar they gave Garrett in Thief 3, they made it look like someone took a sword and cut him along one side of the face. When Viktoria rips out Garrett's eye in The Dark Project, she does just that - rips out his eye. She doesn't run her claws in a line above and below his eye first, she just sticks her claws right above and right below the eye, and then yanks it out.
Also, in Thief 2, Garrett never has a visible scar. You see his face on the boxart, when he first meets Viktoria, and in Viktoria's assault on Soulforge. A scar is never shown.
jtbalogh on 24/3/2006 at 01:54
A book in the KCpendulum schema says, ".. blue flame blazes, the deadly shadows amass, ..."
Shoshin on 24/3/2006 at 03:46
Quote Posted by T-Smith
No doubt having your eye ripped out would leave tissue damage. But it's the kind of scar they gave Garrett in Thief 3, they made it look like someone took a sword and cut him along one side of the face.
So call it excessive use of artistic license or just call it bad art, but it isn't a continuity error. There is justification in the narrative for Garrett to have a scar on his face around the eye that was ripped out and then replaced by a mechanical one.
New Horizon on 24/3/2006 at 04:16
Quote Posted by Shoshin
So call it excessive use of artistic license or just call it bad art, but it isn't a continuity error. There is justification in the narrative for Garrett to have a scar on his face around the eye that was ripped out and then replaced by a mechanical one.
Excessive use of artistic license or bad art....my ass. It is, without question, a continuity error.
Watch the cut scene where it happens in Thief 1, his face isn't touched when victoria removes his eye...it's a quick clean motion...the eye is neatly plucked out.
That is the equivalent of the main character in a movie, having suffered a dreadful accident in the first movie, but showing now physical effects throughout it and the sequel...when suddenly, a magical scar appears in the third to 'toughen' the character. That's a continuity issue.
There would be justification if the scar existed in the first two games
after his eye was plucked out, but it never did. Continuity took a backseat many times in TDS.
Shoshin on 24/3/2006 at 05:11
I get it, I do. You guys did not like Thief: Deadly Shadows. Ion Storm Warren Spector bla bla bla.
You're right, in the cutscenes from Thief Gold, no scar was visible on the right side of Garrett's face. Of course, the right side of Garrett's face is never visible in any cutscene after he has his eye ripped out. However, I will grant you that in the cutscenes in Thief 2, no scar is visible.
So, here's a hypothetical for you, since at the very least New Horizon is interested in game development, given his work with the Minimalist project and his involvement with the Dark Mod. You have a pre-established character, one who has had his eye ripped out and replaced by a mechanical one in a game that is a prequel to the one you're making now. How do you communicate to the people who will be playing this game but who did not play the previous games about this mechanical eye? How did it get there? Why does he have this eye? One could, I suppose, have a "Previously on Thief..." introduction like they do for Battlestar Galactica in which the major plot points are summarized ("Garrett defeated the Trickster, but not before losing an eye. His brief alliance with the Hammerites led to them providing him with a mechanical one, but with the rise of the Mechanists......"). Or perhaps you could give the character a scar, which communicates some unspecified trauma to that region that provides at least some justification for the fact that this character has a mechanical eye. It's a visual shorthand that communicates information to those poor souls who are not lucky enough to have experienced the other games first. So, strictly speaking, fine, it's a continuity error. But it is one that is justified both by the pre-existing narrative and from a design standpoint. They didn't do it to make Garrett look cool.
New Horizon on 24/3/2006 at 05:59
Quote Posted by Shoshin
You're right, in the cutscenes from Thief Gold, no scar was visible on the right side of Garrett's face. Of course, the right side of Garrett's face is never visible in any cutscene after he has his eye ripped out. However, I will grant you that in the cutscenes in Thief 2, no scar is visible.
You can clearly see the action of his eye being plucked out in the cut scene. His face wasn't touched.
Quote Posted by Shoshin
How do you communicate to the people who will be playing this game but who did not play the previous games about this mechanical eye?
I would have put it in page 4 of the T3 instruction manual, under the section titled, "The Story of Thief: Deadly Shadows".
The scar provides no additional back story for the mechanical eye. No more than if there were no scar at all. The player is still left wondering why Garrett has a mechanical eye. I'm sure if there were absolutely no scar, they wouldn't sit there blinking and wondering...how the hell did that get in there? The would have to assume his real eye was removed somehow...either by force or choice. The scar is supposed to explain how Garrett got the mechanical eye? Nonsense. The scar is misleading to the player, because the actual event was not as violent as the scar depicts. If anything, it would end up leading the player further astray and if they ever did play the original games...they would see the continuity error for themselves.
Not that any of this matters anyway.
It's not so black and white as..."I disliked Deadly Shadows", what I disliked was the disrespect for the established universe.
