Tony_Tarantula on 10/7/2015 at 00:38
Hey Bjack:
Hate to resurrect the thread, but this is just a link that doesn't really deserve its own thread
(
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html)
Quote:
For decades in art circles it was either a rumour or a joke, but now it is confirmed as a fact.
The Central Intelligence Agency used American modern art - including the works of such artists as Jackson Pollock, Robert Motherwell, Willem de Kooning and Mark Rothko - as a weapon in the Cold War. In the manner of a Renaissance prince - except that it acted secretly - the CIA fostered and promoted American Abstract Expressionist painting around the world for more than 20 years.
The existence of this policy, rumoured and disputed for many years, has now been confirmed for the first time by former CIA officials. Unknown to the artists, the new American art was secretly promoted under a policy known as the "long leash" - arrangements similar in some ways to the indirect CIA backing of the journal Encounter, edited by Stephen Spender.
The decision to include culture and art in the US Cold War arsenal was taken as soon as the CIA was founded in 1947. Dismayed at the appeal communism still had for many intellectuals and artists in the West, the new agency set up a division, the Propaganda Assets Inventory, which at its peak could influence more than 800 newspapers, magazines and public information organisations. They joked that it was like a Wurlitzer jukebox: when the CIA pushed a button it could hear whatever tune it wanted playing across the world.
Part of it isn't just the death of free thinking, but that people are painfully and utterly naive. Nobody ever stops to ask a simple "why?" for even the most simple matters in daily life.
One of the most telling conversations I had recently was with a lady who's child had appeared as a prodigy on a well known TV show, and was the youngest girl ever to graduate from the Ivy League school she attended. The mother was a different story from her kid: according to her, the way to fix the American education system is to, and I quote, "teach kids more facts".....as if the entire system isn't already entirely focused on the rote memorization and repetition of spoonfed "facts".
bjack on 10/7/2015 at 01:33
The old "thinking outside the box" comes to mind here. While there are some things that should not be questioned (fire burns flesh, cyanide is not good for cocktails, and shape spikes in the eye are not good for eyesight) there are many things that should be. Yes, it can get tedious. The trick is to know when to question absurd things, or even things that may not seem absurd to most, but really are.
As for facts, whose facts? Those in power? It's times like these that I break out my Bhagavad Gita - as it is, and try to get some perspective on material misdirections.
Tony_Tarantula on 10/7/2015 at 01:40
Disagree, but more pedantically than anything else.
To use one of your examples, yes fire burns. That is hard to argue with.
You should still take the time to understand why fire burns. Even if you absolutely know something is true you are still a fool if you can't explain why it's true.
faetal on 10/7/2015 at 10:37
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
Nobody ever stops to ask a simple "why?" for even the most simple matters in daily life.
Nobody ever? Except you? Wow - no wonder you strut around with such an assumed air of authority.
Neb on 10/7/2015 at 15:09
Based on no evidence, why would anyone in their right mind come to the conclusion that the CIA must have secretly played a part in the popularity of modern art? Reading about it in a newspaper after it's been declassified says nothing about questioning anything.
heywood on 10/7/2015 at 15:23
Tony - what is the point you are trying to make by including this article re: the CIA and modern art? It isn't clear.
I don't see anything wrong with a country promoting it's art and culture as a reflection of its values. I wish the organizations which make up today's US security state were more appreciative of free expression and non-conformity in American culture. Maybe then we could serve as a positive example of freedom again, instead of looking like a bunch of hypocrites.
bjack on 10/7/2015 at 17:05
Tony, I did not say fire burns. I said that fire burns flesh. There is a difference there. It's not about why the fire burns, or even why it burns flesh that I am concerned about. I am simply stating is an un-disputable fact that every time a completely unprotected hand is placed in a flame for enough time, it will always get burnt. That is what I am talking about. Walk in the rain? Your shoes will get wet. These are not things to argue, for if one does, that person can come off as a complete nut job. :D Asking why your shoes get wet in the rain? :tsktsk:
That a simple observable thing exists is usually not an issue among people (yes, there are notable exceptions). It is the "why does this thing exist" portion that complicates things. It's also when complex systems come into play that disagreement occurs. Politics and religion are great examples. One can tell me that the great big fireball in the sky is really a sky elephant, but we cannot see him as he really is because his radiance is so powerful. However, he speaks to special people on Earth and has told these people his true nature. These people then tell you how to live. This type of "knowledge" is what I would question. I would not question that there is a huge fireball in the sky though. I do question the authority and sanity of people that experience divine communications. Oh me of little faith. :joke:
Poverty exists; however, people's definition of poverty varies all over the world, even within a city. What would be considered luxury in Liberia is sub-poverty here in the USA. So many complex things today are not rigidly defined, or they are, but capriciously. I have given prior examples of regulated selenium in drinking water vs. health supplements. How about using 0.08% alcohol levels for DWI all adults? Making the voting age 18, yet restricting alcohol sales to 21 (and now tobacco in Hawaii) ? Or how about all the silly memes many of us see every day? Most are mindless idiocy.
Do I have a point? Meh... I am too busy thinking about something else right now. See ya later :cool:
Tony_Tarantula on 16/7/2015 at 22:42
Quote Posted by faetal
Nobody ever? Except you? Wow - no wonder you strut around with such an assumed air of authority.
Nobody ever? Hardly.
That doesn't mean you aren't blisteringly naive. A lot of the things you take for granted (for example, the previously discussed "The Catholic Church destroyed science during the Dark Ages narrative) simply are not so.
faetal on 17/7/2015 at 08:34
You have no idea what I do or don't take for granted. You do however seem to think that your baseline scepticism is normal zero and that others are somehow more naive than you.
You're kind of difficult to take seriously. You think that you're delivering some kind of tough basic truth, but you just come across as someone who has zero ability to ascribe sense, reason or intelligence to other people when their opinions differ from yours. It comes across as a tic rather than what I assume you think of as being somehow savvy.
You're not helping anyone tune in, you're selling a fucked radio.
