wycha on 28/8/2019 at 12:39
Okay, first I expect no, since there is a lot of great and complicated fanmissions, and there's no thing as such(or I didn't met so far). Also I know nothing about technical aspects of making a fanmission, please forgive me. It is more rhetorical question.
Is it possible to create option to "choose" objectives in fanmission? An example:
You can either bring "thieves guild plans" to the blue capes, or give "blue capes plans" to thieves guild.
Which gives you multiple optional objectives, but realizing one from a "group" will cancel the rest of objectives from another. The point is to create simple "choosing faction" or choosing way to deal with "the problem" element in a story.
There are plenty fanmissions with hidden optional objectives. I'm sure there is something which prevents creators to make something like that in a fanmissions, I am curious what it is, or maybe there is plenty of factors?
If there are such fanmission no matter how small that tries to realize something similar, do you know some? Could you bring the examples? I want to try on myself how it is work with thief game, if it's fun or actually isn't worthy the time and energy spent to create something like that.
Yandros on 28/8/2019 at 12:53
It's not technically impossible, it is just complicated. And I suspect no authors have had both the idea and the determination to make it work in a FM before.
I did something slightly similar in my FM Dance With the Dead, where besides picking a standard difficulty level, once in game you also choose a gameplay mode, which drastically alters the availability of tools and potions etc. within the game. That's not the same as choosing between different objectives, though. It's a cool idea though, maybe some author will see this and get inspired!
Unna Oertdottir on 28/8/2019 at 14:09
It's possible to do story lines using different goal threads. Doing this requires a very good plan or the FM author will get grey hair soon. The person who has to fix this in a dml afterwards is doomed :devil:
There are some FMs with additional goals and areas on different difficulties. The FMs by RiCh are very good doing this.
(
https://thiefmissions.com/search.cgi?search=%2bauthor=Richard%20Cull%20(RiCh)#m)
trefoilknot on 28/8/2019 at 14:11
In Kings Story, there's a decision point which affects the objectives going forward. It sounds like you could just iterate that to create multiple branching options. But, as Yandros says, it'll get really complicated really fast.
vfig on 28/8/2019 at 15:19
On a technical level, this is possible: when any of objective A, or B, or C is completed, it cancels (and perhaps hides) objectives X, Y, and Z. And vice-versa, when any of objective X, Y, and Z is completed, it cancels (and perhaps hides) A, B, and C. This can be achieved with qvartraps and other logic objects, or through scripts. On a gameplay level, you'd also need to think carefully about how you communicate the situation to the player, so that they understand that there is a choice for them to make, and what actions they have to do to make their choice.
My own experience with dynamic objectives: in Making a Profit, I have several objectives that can be fulfilled different ways, and they also enable or cancel out other objectives or objective-related voiceover; this ends up working a little bit similar to what you're asking about. I found that trying to do this using qvartraps and so on in the traditional way was much too complicated and very fragile. But using a little Squirrel scripting made it much easier to do: with the right approach, the scripting need only be as complicated as the branches in your plan for the objectives.
ValmontPhl on 28/8/2019 at 23:35
I seem to remember Firemage doing something such as choosing a faction, or what "side" of an incident you want to play; Thieves or Cops iirc.
baeuchlein on 30/8/2019 at 00:32
I think Firemage's mission was "Caprice - The Overlord's Ending". I believe that the player chooses the side to play on via the difficulty level.
Another mission in which a lot of the story and objectives are defined by the difficulty level is "A Weekend Getaway". The player is advised to play the mission subsequently on all three "difficulty levels" to get the whole story.
There also is a mission called "The Ghost House (The Haunted Hospital)". At the beginning, the player chooses whether to play "The Ghost House" or "The Haunted Hospital". This does influence not only the objectives, but also the map layout.
Finally, there are a few objectives in the first mission of Soul Tears "Keeper of Infinity" campaign which may or may not appear depending on what the player does first. These objectives are formulated slightly different, and technically seen, they appear to be different objectives/goals. The main storyline is not altered significantly, though, regardless of what the player does when.
Esme on 30/8/2019 at 10:17
In my one and only mission there's a sleeping drug dealer, if you wake him up he runs & fetches the guards, but if you find the evidence of his dealing & drop it on the guard commanders desk first they'll kill him on sight, that's about as complicated as I got
But I believe it's possible, trigger one objective and it cancels others, AI can then be switched to being on different sides, areas can be made off limits with barriers and the story you're telling changes, but it ain't easy
nicked on 30/8/2019 at 12:20
Death's Turbid Veil had two objectives that were an "either or" - completing one would invalidate the other. Anything's possible. Hell, you could have a complex story that branches at multiple points with wildly different endings if you wanted. Quest variables are powerful things.
I think the reason it doesn't happen more is just the complexity and amount of work involved. It's a huge amount of work just to make a finished mission with a single, linear story. The more choices you add, the more work you are making for yourself, potentially exponentially if you have choices within choices.
