Soul Shaker on 30/3/2006 at 05:23
Quote Posted by jermi
On the other hand, TDS looks a bit better from 3rd person because then you're usually further away from those low-resolution wall textures.
(
http://www.john-p.com/textures/Thief-DS/index.shtml)
No more low res textures for you! In the misc pack, comes with an installer...
tiger@sound.net on 31/3/2006 at 01:34
Quote Posted by New Horizon
. . . they did do a great job implimenting Third Person, but they did so at the expense of the 'CORE' gameplay mechanics. First person in TDS is worse than third person. . .
Thanks, NH.
And there's the Rub that I was wondering about, but I didn't dare ask.
So, is there a good and quick digest of what critcial stuff was left-out of T3?
(I have heard stories about too much fluff and not enough good T2 stuff.) :(
And most likely the entire Thief modification-community is already working on these "CORE" T2 gameplay mechanics?
(To me, T3 is a first-rate adventure game with a nicely worked-out storyline. But maybe that is simply "just fluffy stuff" to some of our hardcore T2 players?)
New Horizon on 31/3/2006 at 03:07
Quote Posted by tiger@sound.net
(To me, T3 is a first-rate adventure game with a nicely worked-out storyline. But maybe that is simply "just fluffy stuff" to some of our hardcore T2 players?)
For me, it's a 'good' game as well, but it's too busy trying to be cool, hip and relevant, to be a real Thief game. TDS is as good as it is, because there were some people on the team who understood Thief and fought pretty damn hard to keep it from going too far in the wrong direction. With such a strong foundation beneath it, T3 should have been a no brainer, but instead...somebody decided to try reinventing the wheel. I think it's partly a creative ego thing, people want to leave their mark. The community just gets stuck trying to rub that mark off.
Domarius on 31/3/2006 at 03:34
Rather than a scouting orb, Garrett should have a magical one that floats behind him all the time. You could control it with the mouse to make it move left and right behind you, giving you the ability to look around corners.
Best of all, you could do this any time, for FREE! No chance of throwing it in the wrong place, no using skill to estimate how far you should throw it, and no having to work out how to sneak it back - essentially, no thinking involved!!
Oh wait, it already exists in TDS - its called fucking THIRD PERSON VIEW!!
:tsktsk:
Soul Shaker on 31/3/2006 at 04:35
Quote Posted by New Horizon
For me, it's a 'good' game as well, but it's too busy trying to be cool, hip and relevant, to be a real Thief game. TDS is as good as it is, because there were some people on the team who understood Thief and fought pretty damn hard to keep it from going too far in the wrong direction. With such a strong foundation beneath it, T3 should have been a no brainer, but instead...somebody decided to try reinventing the wheel. I think it's partly a creative ego thing, people want to leave their mark. The community just gets stuck trying to rub that mark off.
They reinvented the wheel and turned it into an egg. Lopsided, but still rolls. The mark, no matter how hard people try, it won't come off, there'll always be that little stain there...
jtbalogh on 31/3/2006 at 04:49
Calm down Domarius. The floating camera moves way too much in confined places, can block vision and requires lots of control to use properly and avoid being awkward. You are only saying no skill because it is easy to use when garrett stops. Skill is needed when garrett is moving because it takes a whole new and different set of tactics to master compared to the orb. Can a person ghost a level faster with third person compared to first person?
tiger@sound.net on 31/3/2006 at 11:14
Quote Posted by jtbalogh
. . . Can a person ghost a level faster with third person compared to first person?
I just had the T3 demo for a week, while I waited on shipping.
And that third-person mode, combined with certain first-person needs,
definitely improved my ghosting abilities and speed.
(But T3 does not have even the simpliest version of player-locating on its map like Postal2 has, with a very advanced arrow-indicator and trail of markers, even.)
And, as normal humans, I would have to say that we really do need distinct graphical details and/or landmarks to keep from getting "lost in the dark".
(I know. That was a very bad pun. But it is so very true in this case.) ;)
So, to me, T3's third-person mode simply helps with that natural need to keep from looking around in three or four directions, especially in a new map, to just confirm
"Where, the hell, am I?" So did any version of T2 have any sort of simple player-location indicator in its map screen? (In T3, we already have that very needed compass for our heading.) And a simple red dot might do the job, very nicely, by using the X and Y values from the player's location on the current map, perhaps?)
Soul Shaker on 31/3/2006 at 12:02
The map is realistically functional. The others didn't have third person, but a map that told you sections.
Kovitlac on 31/3/2006 at 14:10
Quote:
Of course it's a good marketing ploy, but it's a complete betrayal of the Thief gameplay concept.
I don't see how that's true because wheather or no you're in 3rd person is totally up to the player and how he or she wants to play. More of the gamers who played the first games longer prefer 1st person (although I'm actually an exception), whil;e I could see newer players liking 3rd person more because they are still getting used to the game. It's all a matter of opinion (like you said), and neither way of playing hurts the other way. This thread is basicly just for saying how 3rd person is cheating, which also is not true because the makers of the game intended for you to use it if you want to.
jtbalogh on 31/3/2006 at 14:23
Sorry Kobilac, that is not a good argument though there is some truth to it. We have less trust for the makers of a game that made so many other poor decisions. What Ion Storm says does not make it gospel in this case. Hell, Ion Storm made the game so easy on 'Expert' difficulty, that that could be considered cheating too. But we did not take it up the ass and the Minimalist Project helped restore more accurate gameplay mechanics.
BTW, you just verified that the game is for new players, and not old players, which has to betray some of the thief concept to achieve this.
