Soul Tear on 9/1/2015 at 15:55
Quote Posted by baeuchlein
As I already stated in the thread for "KoI: Bad Venture" ((
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144837&p=2275007&viewfull=1#post2275007) click here), it could be interesting to find out why some computers will run "KoI" or "Death's Turbid Veil" smoothly, while others will stutter on
one of these two missions, but not
both. If the exact reason would be found, maybe authors could only
slightly reduce their missions' visuals in order to improve FPS a lot. Pushing the graphics towards the limits found in this approach could be quite satisfactory for authors and players alike.
The main problem of DTV and KoI is not in graphics, but in geometry. And here and there a huge map which is almost the entire visible. In 1.18 there was not lags because it was a hard limit on the cells and polygons, 768 and 1024 respectively. If more - crash. NewDark remove all the borders, and we got what we got.
Possible to improve fps in DTV if all objects-windows turn into brushes. I did it at KoI and got +50% fps in some areas. I also had to remove 2 of 3 wonderful Sliptip's waterfalls, it gave +100% fps at the starting area, but I was upset that I had to remove them.
cavador_8 on 9/1/2015 at 16:40
Quote:
it gave +100% fps at the starting area, but I was upset that I had to remove them.
You shouldn't be upset. I truly believe that fps is one of the most important concerns with Thief 2. I really don't want to see my favorite game of all time heading in the direction of all the newer games if fps are going to be affected.
The reason why Thief 2 became so popular in the first place and has remained so through all these years is due to one primary reason: IMMERSION. Like me, I'm sure everyone here has played MANY other games out there and it's true that NONE can get you immersed into a game like Thief 2. I can't think of one game that sucks me into another world like Thief 2 can. I feel like I have stepped into another world. It feels like I am not even playing a game, like I'm part of this Thief world interacting and moving about in it.
A big reason for this immersion is the game running smoothly and allowing you to move about in it freely. BUT, when the frame rate drops, to me it's like the needle scratching along the record and everything comes to a halt. Right then I am reminded that I am just playing a game. I get ripped right out of the immersion. It's like someone in the game placed their arms around me and tackled me holding me up. I am reminded that I am just playing a game and then I start concerning myself with things like is my video card powerful enough? Do I have enough RAM? Is my processor fast enough?
For example, I was playing Death's Turbid Veil and this was happening. FPS drops everywhere and I just was not enjoying the experience. It was feeling like any other modern game. Then I started playing the Keeper Investigation Campaign and the old Thief feeling was there. The immersion was HIGH but the graphics were stock. That's what Thief is about to me. If I don't feel truly immersed into the mission then it's not Thief to me.
cavador_8 on 11/1/2015 at 19:52
Well I got around to playing Keeper Of Infinity this weekend. Wow. Not wow because of the graphics. Wow because of the wild fluctuating frame rates. I know everyone here already knows about frame rate issues for Keeper Of Infinity here on this forum. I'm just genuinely concerned about NewDark and where all the new FMs seem to be heading. At first, I was excited about NewDark. Not so much anymore.
I'm playing FMs on a GTX 680 with 8GB RAM and a 3.5ghz processor. In Keeper Of Infinity I'm getting wild fluctuating frame rates of 60 down to 30s-40s back to 60 and down to 40s-50s everywhere all over the map. I entered the tavern in Keeper Of Infinity and watched my frame take a hard dive into the 30s. That's not enjoyable to me. All these people talking about how beautiful these new missions are and gladly accepting low frame rates in exchange. Sorry, but I can't get on board with this line of thinking.
Renault on 12/1/2015 at 06:44
Quote Posted by cavador_8
At first, I was excited about NewDark. Not so much anymore.
This is an extremely flawed way of thinking. New Dark just expands the capabilities of the dark engine, and makes Thief much more compatible with modern hardware. It's still up to the individual FM authors to design their missions properly, and not overload the engine. When Calendra's Legacy came out, back in the early 2000s, it had higher hardware requirements than Thief 2, and some people couldn't run it smoothly. There's been a few other missions like that along the way as well. There are always (and have always been) authors who will push the limits past what the norm is. That's got nothing to do with ND.
I can understand your frustration, but you're placing blame in the wrong direction. The fact that you can run Thief at all on your new machine should demonstrate to you how valuable New Dark is to this community.
Soul Tear on 12/1/2015 at 14:07
Quote Posted by cavador_8
I'm playing FMs on a GTX 680 with 8GB RAM and a 3.5ghz processor. In Keeper Of Infinity I'm getting wild fluctuating frame rates of 60 down to 30s-40s back to 60 and down to 40s-50s everywhere all over the map. I entered the tavern in Keeper Of Infinity and watched my frame take a hard dive into the 30s. That's not enjoyable to me. All these people talking about how beautiful these new missions are and gladly accepting low frame rates in exchange. Sorry, but I can't get on board with this line of thinking.
Do you think that 30-40 fps is not enough? Many players have got less than 30 fps. But that did not stop them to play. I think that 30 is quite a comfortable number. I have 28 at the start.
Judith on 12/1/2015 at 14:31
Quote Posted by Soul Tear
Do you think that 30-40 fps is not enough? Many players have got less than 30 fps. But that did not stop them to play. I think that 30 is quite a comfortable number. I have 28 at the start.
I doesn't work that way. Either you block maximum FPS at e.g. 30 and leave the rest for the overhead you need, or you ensure that most people get 60 FPS everywhere. Framerate going up and down all the time is annoying. It's also a problem for those who would like to e.g. record a let's play of your mission, as they need their system to be capable of recording stuff. Anyway, the problem is not the lower framerate, it's the huge range between 30 and 60 fps.
cavador_8 on 12/1/2015 at 14:56
Quote:
Do you think that 30-40 fps is not enough? Many players have got less than 30 fps. But that did not stop them to play. I think that 30 is quite a comfortable number. I have 28 at the start.
WOW. I give up. It's this sort of thinking that I just cannot understand. I guess most people are ok with poor frame rates. It just must not bother most people. They would rather be starring the incredible graphics and get poor frame rates than play at a solid 60 fps. I'm not going to bother anymore with this issue. If the new missions that come out run at a choppy frame rate for me then I will just delete it and play my older missions.
Soul Tear on 12/1/2015 at 15:51
Quote Posted by Judith
I doesn't work that way. Either you block maximum FPS at e.g. 30 and leave the rest for the overhead you need, or you ensure that most people get 60 FPS everywhere. Framerate going up and down all the time is annoying. It's also a problem for those who would like to e.g. record a let's play of your mission, as they need their system to be capable of recording stuff. Anyway, the problem is not the lower framerate, it's the huge range between 30 and 60 fps.
For God's sake, do not torture yourself. But everything remains as it is. I'll be doing my FM as I see it. I know about the huge range, for me it's not a problem.
I made quite a few concessions for the players. The rest depends on the engine and ND. The only thing in the future, I will try to avoid the huge open areas.
Suggest all patiently wait new release ND.
Soul Tear on 12/1/2015 at 15:55
Quote Posted by cavador_8
WOW. I give up. It's this sort of thinking that I just cannot understand. I guess most people are ok with poor frame rates. It just must not bother most people. They would rather be starring the incredible graphics and get poor frame rates than play at a solid 60 fps. I'm not going to bother anymore with this issue. If the new missions that come out run at a choppy frame rate for me then I will just delete it and play my older missions.
You can not see 60 fps in 1.22 on a big map with a bunch of HD textures and objects. If only in a dream.
Quote:
I'm not going to bother anymore with this issue.
Me too.
Quote:
If the new missions that come out run at a choppy frame rate for me then I will just delete it and play my older missions.
As you wish.
bassoferrol on 12/1/2015 at 18:31
I reduced the texure size by 3.6 times.
Got rid of water textures.
When I start the mission instead of 25 FPS, sometimes I can see 26 FPS.
In open areas, just about the same: 25-40 FPS
So, it's not the HD textures in 99% of the game.
