Azaran on 7/3/2015 at 16:35
After levelling the remains of an Assyrian city, (
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/feb/26/isis-destroys-thousands-books-libraries) and burning down the Mosul library, they turned their attention to the majestic remains of Hatra and are (
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31779484) blowing everything up. They want their "paradise" culturally barren and they're succeeding
Islamic State militants have begun destroying the ruins of the ancient city of Hatra, Kurdish sources in northern Iraq say.
Hatra was founded in the days of the Parthian Empire over 2,000 years ago and is a Unesco world heritage site.
Earlier this week, IS militants began bulldozing the nearby ruins of the Assyrian city of Nimrud.
IS, which controls large areas of Iraq and Syria, says shrines and statues are "false idols" that have to be smashed.
It not yet clear how extensive any damage might have been.
Hatra, located about 110km (68 miles) south-west of Mosul, was a fortified city that withstood invasions by the Romans thanks to its thick walls reinforced by towers.
'War crime'
Said Mamuzini, a Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) local official, told Kurdish media that IS militants had started destroying the site.
"The city of Hatra is very big and many artefacts of that era were protected inside the site," he said, adding that the militants had already taken away gold and silver.
There is no independent confirmation of the destruction.
Reports of the bulldozer attack in Nimrud, an Assyrian city founded in the 13th Century BC, emerged on Thursday.
On Friday Unesco head Irina Bokova condemned the "cultural cleansing" in Iraq as a "war crime".
"There is absolutely no political or religious justification for the destruction of humanity's cultural heritage."
Last week, IS released a video apparently showing militants with sledgehammers destroying statues and other artefacts in a museum in Mosul.
In the video, the objects are described as "false idols" and their destruction defended in religious terms.
IS has controlled Mosul, Iraq's second-largest city, and nearby areas since June 2014 - a region with nearly 1,800 of the country's 12,000 registered archaeological sites.
The Parthian Empire was a major political and cultural force in ancient Iran. At the height of its power in the second century AD, it extended from modern-day Pakistan to Syria.
Hatra later flourished under Arab rulers, and became a major trading-post on the Silk Road across the Asian continent.
Inline Image:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/life/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20130627/00221917e9c41335e95e24.jpgInline Image:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Hatra_ruins.jpgInline Image:
http://www.theodora.com/wfb/photos/iraq/parthian_empire_remains_hatra_iraq_photo_unesco_2.jpgInline Image:
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/5136254.jpgDiMarzio on 7/3/2015 at 21:55
This is just horrible! This might sound inhumane, but I think what they are doing is worse than killing and genocide. Killing doesn't change anything permanently, and there always will be more people, and certainly we are not running out of them. And people killing each other isn't obviously going to end ever. But destroying our history and culture is just, just... I don't even have words for it. It shows that they have no respect for anything human and they are intentionally provoking the rest of the world. A war crime indeed, and a crime against humanity. And on top of that, I think it's just ridiculous. The ancient civilizations are still part of their history, whether they want it or not. And like there were any worshipers of those statues anyway...
Not to disrespect the memory of any deceased or anyone's loss of a loved one. Death is always a tragedy, and this is also one. A part of our history gone forever.
Azaran on 7/3/2015 at 22:27
Quote Posted by DiMarzio
And on top of that, I think it's just ridiculous. The ancient civilizations are still part of their history, whether they want it or not. And like there were any worshipers of those statues anyway...
Not to disrespect the memory of any deceased or anyone's loss of a loved one. Death is always a tragedy, and this is also one. A part of our history gone forever.
Even their theological justification is bs. No one is worshipping at those sites, and they're destroying everything, whether temples or civic buildings. Their motivation is Wahhabism which promotes destruction and aims for a culturally barren society (their (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_heritage_sites_in_Saudi_Arabia) Saudi mentors taught them well), probably coupled with wanting to destroy as much as they can before they're defeated, and certainly the same malicious pleasure a spoiled brat has in vandalizing and destroying things.
Many people want to link this with Islam, but the same kind of puritanical, ideologically motivated destruction has been found in several different religious and political streams
-The Chinese Cultural revolution
-Destruction of temples and synagogues by Christians in the 4th and 5th centuries AD
-Byzantine iconoclasm
-Protestant vandalism against Catholic churches during the Reformation
-Nazi book burnings and wanton destruction
-Evangelists (
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/sep/06/african-evangelists-destroy-artifacts/?page=all) destroying the world's cultures as we speak
Etc....
Not sure if anyone ever made a study of this behaviour, or even given it a name
Tony_Tarantula on 9/3/2015 at 21:04
It's called "Cult isolation", whereby the leaders of an extremist source attempt to cut off any source of knowledge besides ones they control.
Kolya on 9/3/2015 at 22:12
Quote Posted by DiMarzio
This might sound inhumane, but I think what they are doing is worse than killing and genocide.
Yes it does and no it is not. These are old stones that some people once erected because they were religious and now some others tear them down for the same reason. Your western ideals about cultural preservation and aesthetics never had anything to do with this. The fact that they are terrorising and killing the people who live there is much worse.
Quote Posted by DiMarzio
there always will be more people, and certainly we are not running out of them.
You talk about them like a statistic. But they are mothers and fathers and kids and friends. Seriously re-adjust your priorities, man. It won't change anything about the IS but it's important for your own self.
Nicker on 10/3/2015 at 05:14
Quote Posted by Kolya
Yes it does and no it is not. These are old stones that some people once erected because they were religious and now some others tear them down for the same reason. Your western ideals about cultural preservation and aesthetics never had anything to do with this. The fact that they are terrorising and killing the people who live there is much worse.
You talk about them like a statistic. But they are mothers and fathers and kids and friends. Seriously re-adjust your priorities, man. It won't change anything about the IS but it's important for your own self.
That's a bit harsh.
These places are as much a part of our humanity as individual people are. They are not just stone idols, they are the record of all of us and where we came from. They are not just soulless buildings, they are the collective and irreplaceable expressions of our origins, our art and culture, our highest and most venerable aspirations.
They represent knowledge and reflection, painstakingly extricated from a lost past, a past worthy of preserving and celebrating. They are singular and irreplaceable. Their destruction represents an attack on all of us, on the truth about ourselves, the kinds of truths which people sacrifice their lives to protect. In WW2 people across Europe risked and often lost their lives to protect their national treasures, not because they were more important than people but because they were equally important.
faetal on 10/3/2015 at 08:54
Daddy bear -> Mommy bear -> Baby bear.
DiMarzio on 10/3/2015 at 11:35
Quote Posted by Kolya
Yes it does and no it is not. These are old stones that some people once erected because they were religious and now some others tear them down for the same reason. Your western ideals about cultural preservation and aesthetics never had anything to do with this. The fact that they are terrorising and killing the people who live there is much worse.
As Nicker said it very well too: It's a bit more than religious fanatics destroying some other religious fanatics' work. Think about what that work represents. It not only represents an important cultural, religious and aesthetic heritage, but it's also historical evidence, a part of our knowledge. And being an UNESCO wh site, it's also one that has been internationally agreed to be inviolable. Violating it, IS deliberately takes offence on the whole world. Well, killing isn't good either, but killing people as a by-product of war, or in general as a matter of fact, is nothing new. Neither is indifference to it. No international law or ideology hasn't yet been able to prevent it.
And what do you mean by: "Your western ideals about cultural preservation and aesthetics never had anything to do with this." ?
Quote:
You talk about them like a statistic. But they are mothers and fathers and kids and friends. Seriously re-adjust your priorities, man. It won't change anything about the IS but it's important for your own self.
The topic of life and death in one's ethics is whole another discussion and I can't quite reply to this without starting one. We can do it somewhere else if you want to. But to avoid any misunderstandings: that prioritization was entirely my subjective outlook. I'm not shoving it down anyone's throat, obviously. I'm not pro violence, I'm a pacifist.
faetal on 10/3/2015 at 12:56
If you want to go at it purely logically, genocide is definitely worse than destroying relics. Genocide ((
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/genocide) the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group) means no more of that culture ever again, or at least a greatly reduced capacity for it. No more relics? If they were important to a culture which is still alive and well, they can make new relics in their image - people in 1000 years time can enjoy those - the story of how they were destroyed and re-built may be brutal in the short term, but after enough time has passed, they'll just be part of the relics' history.
Renault on 10/3/2015 at 15:33
I'm appalled that this is even a discussion. Anyone who thinks a bunch of statues and structures are more important than actual human beings is just wacked in the head. Sure, the loss of the ruins is a tragedy, but guess what? We can always build some new shit. Nothing is more valuable than a human life.
