Draxil on 24/11/2023 at 17:31
What it essentially boils down to is that Hamas, now and in the recent past, controls Gaza. How do you negotiate a ceasefire or peace deal with a group whose charter, stated goals, and actions are all aimed at the eradication of a Jewish state and people in the region? It's pointless, and anyone who is actively calling for that is, wittingly or not, asking for Israeli Jews to please shut up and die a little less noisily. Reminds me of the caroon of John Kerry and the peace talks.
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https://c1.legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Half-Way-590-LI.jpgSD on 24/11/2023 at 20:44
Quote Posted by june gloom
The sheer cussed irony of this comment.
Once again, thank you for your meticulously constructed argument.
Quote Posted by Starker
Israeli army from the very first days of bombing declared that the emphasis is on damage, not accuracy, and that they want to reduce Gaza to a "city of tents".
When you say "Israeli army", you mean a single IDF official, right? Personally I've always been one who would prefer to judge people by their actions rather than their words.
My hobby right now is of course listening to citizens of a country that destroyed quarter of a million buildings in Tokyo and killed more than 100,000 people
in a single night throwing shade at a country that has inflicted maybe one-tenth of that damage in more than a month of operations.
mxleader on 25/11/2023 at 01:00
Quote Posted by SD
Once again, thank you for your meticulously constructed argument.
When you say "Israeli army", you mean a single IDF official, right? Personally I've always been one who would prefer to judge people by their actions rather than their words.
My hobby right now is of course listening to citizens of a country that destroyed quarter of a million buildings in Tokyo and killed more than 100,000 people
in a single night throwing shade at a country that has inflicted maybe one-tenth of that damage in more than a month of operations.
Hamas is an expert group at propaganda and Palestine is a terrorist state. Don't fall for it.
Also Japan made a direct attack on the US and drew us into a very costly war. I don't recall much in the way of their citizens raising much resistance to their leaderships poor decision making. Japan was attacking many other places without cause so we placed sanctions on them. They wanted to wage war and didn't like the sanctions so they threw a fit. It backfired in a rather spectacular way.
Starker on 25/11/2023 at 01:40
Quote Posted by SD
When you say "Israeli army", you mean a single IDF official, right? Personally I've always been one who would prefer to judge people by their actions rather than their words.
My hobby right now is of course listening to citizens of a country that destroyed quarter of a million buildings in Tokyo and killed more than 100,000 people
in a single night throwing shade at a country that has inflicted maybe one-tenth of that damage in more than a month of operations.
One single official who's the spokesman for the army, yes. We have never destroyed a single building in Tokyo.
Also, I am judging the army by their actions. From what I've seen, the destruction is immense and the suffering of ordinary people, a vast amount of people, pretty much amounts to collective punishment. Which, to be clear, is a war crime.
And yes, I also consider the fire bombing of Tokyo and the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by nuclear bombs to be war crimes. Mass killings of civilians can't really be characterised any other way. The killing of Jews and other victims of Nazis during WW2 falls in the same category in my mind. And Japan committed numerous war crimes during that time.
Starker on 25/11/2023 at 05:52
Quote Posted by mxleader
Also Japan made a direct attack on the US and drew us into a very costly war. I don't recall much in the way of their citizens raising much resistance to their leaderships poor decision making. Japan was attacking many other places without cause so we placed sanctions on them. They wanted to wage war and didn't like the sanctions so they threw a fit. It backfired in a rather spectacular way.
People did try to prevent the rise of militarism and imperialism in Japan. Most of them were jailed, assassinated or driven out. There was no civilian oversight over the military and they didn't have to answer to the prime minister of Japan or even to the Ministry of War. It's easy to underestimate the hold right-wing extremists and the military had over Japanese society, but they had pretty much total independence and held an iron grip on the society through a campaign of terror and brainwashing.
Once there is a totalitarian rule in place, there is very little ordinary citizens can do to fight it. Even in democratic countries, it is often nearly impossible to prevent certain actions of the government. A lot of people saw how bad of an idea invading Iraq was in the US, for example, and there were protests against it, but once a state has decided to do something and the majority supports it, what can the citizens opposing it really do? Fight the army?
Moreover, citizens failing to prevent a war or other atrocities still doesn't mean that they are now therefore legitimate targets to be killed.
mxleader on 25/11/2023 at 07:24
Quote Posted by Starker
Moreover, citizens failing to prevent a war or other atrocities still doesn't mean that they are now therefore legitimate targets to be killed.
I believe the term is collateral damage not targets.
I'm not sure how we ended up comparing Japan to the current state of affairs in the Middle-East. The conflict in Palestine and Israel has been going on for something like 4,000 years and based on some wild story of Abraham and his old ass wife. The story defies logic to begin with. When I was a kid I thought that the whole back and forth hatred for each other was based on the fact that the Jews betrayed one of their own and sent him to the cross. Later on in life when I realized that the behavior is illogical and based on a family squabble from thousands of years ago I decided that both sides are packs of idiots that deserve each other.
One of the shocking elements of the current events is the utter ignorance displayed by various left-wing groups out there protesting against Israel. You have to admit the Hamas propaganda machine is well oiled when they've managed to con native American and LGTBQ+ groups into supporting their cause. Undoubtedly there are members of Hamas within Palestinian groups living in Europe and the Americas so their reach is far and wide. Hamas/Palestine supporters are so delusional that I saw someone claiming that a Jewish woman was giving a Nazi salute in a crowd at a protest. I don't even know where I'm going with this because the insanity I'm seeing in so many videos is difficult to comprehend. The ease at which people will jump on a bandwagon because it's the next thing in a long line of things to be upset over or to push their own cause is disturbing. And the colonizer movement groups are ridiculous because all humans evolved out of Africa and are all colonizers.
Eff this, I'm going to bed.
mxleader on 25/11/2023 at 07:24
Quote Posted by Starker
Moreover, citizens failing to prevent a war or other atrocities still doesn't mean that they are now therefore legitimate targets to be killed.
I believe the term is collateral damage not targets.
I'm not sure how we ended up comparing Japan to the current state of affairs in the Middle-East. The conflict in Palestine and Israel has been going on for something like 4,000 years and based on some wild story of Abraham and his old ass wife. The story defies logic to begin with. When I was a kid I thought that the whole back and forth hatred for each other was based on the fact that the Jews betrayed one of their own and sent him to the cross. Later on in life when I realized that the behavior is illogical and based on a family squabble from thousands of years ago I decided that both sides are packs of idiots that deserve each other.
One of the shocking elements of the current events is the utter ignorance displayed by various left-wing groups out there protesting against Israel. You have to admit the Hamas propaganda machine is well oiled when they've managed to con native American and LGTBQ+ groups into supporting their cause. Undoubtedly there are members of Hamas within Palestinian groups living in Europe and the Americas so their reach is far and wide. Hamas/Palestine supporters are so delusional that I saw someone claiming that a Jewish woman was giving a Nazi salute in a crowd at a protest. I don't even know where I'm going with this because the insanity I'm seeing in so many videos is difficult to comprehend. The ease at which people will jump on a bandwagon because it's the next thing in a long line of things to be upset over or to push their own cause is disturbing. And the colonizer movement groups are ridiculous because all humans evolved out of Africa and are all colonizers.
Eff this, I'm going to bed.
RippedPhreak on 25/11/2023 at 13:39
What was the Hamas attack but "collective punishment" of all Jews? Nobody seems to consider that a "war crime" though.
Starker on 25/11/2023 at 15:49
Nobody calls the 9/11 attacks war crimes either. Hamas is just a terrorist organisation because they weren't elected into office and nobody recognises them as legitimate. To commit war crimes, you have to have some degree of legitimacy as a governing body. But otherwise, yes, if Hamas was legitimate, they absolutely would be war crimes. The taking of hostages alone would constitute as such.
Starker on 25/11/2023 at 17:37
Quote Posted by mxleader
I believe the term is collateral damage not targets.
Obviously, if you are targeting just civilians, it's a war crime. But targeting military targets without regard to civilians is also a war crime if the proportionality and necessity are not observed. The atomic bombing of Japanese cities in particular was completely unnecessary from a military perspective. Japan was already defeated militarily. Rather, these bombings served a political purpose.
