Just wanted to share with you...

CD Set on 29/12/2005 at 23:20

Well first of all I would just like to say that this is my first thread on this new forum and you all seem like a bunch of nice people!

I recently started playing Thief: The Dark Project (for reasons undetermined) after having my copy lying on the desk for several years. I never got around to complete it, but one day I thought what the heck and installed it again on my PC.

I fell in love with the game again after all these years and am currently struggling to complete it. I ordered the sequels too, because they're so cheap nowadays, and hope to continue the experience of stealth action.

I have read alot of posts on various boards saying the Cradle Level in Deadly Shadows is something to fear, because of it's creepiness. I don't really like scary games in general, but I'm anxiously looking forward to this particular level. Could someone please give some input on how these two games are in comparsion to the original, as well as some comments on the Cradle? Any replies will be greatly appreciated (hopefully)...

T-Smith on 30/12/2005 at 00:15

Personally, I always found Thief 2: The Metal Age to be the best in the series. While The Dark Project was filled with the undead, demons, spiders, and the like, Thief 2 focuses much more on actual thieving and burglary. The plotline isn't as good as the first one, but it's still engaging, and just like the original, the whole things drips with atmosphere.

Thief 3 is in my opinion (and despite what plenty of others say) a fantastic game as well. One of the best of 2004 in fact. The graphics are more cartoon-ish then the first two. Also, it requires a pretty decent PC to run properly. It also dumbs down many elements found in the original two games. The levels aren't as open ended, certain items are missing (rope arrows and the sword are now gone), and there are 'Load Zones' in levels. 3rd person was added, and many other things changed to appeal to the supposed 'stupider' console gamers (I for one play consoles all the time, and the idea that Ion Storm dumbed the game down for consoles is insulting). There's also plenty of glitches.

All that may sound bad, but overall if you fix it up right (mainly by patching and or using Thiefbot, and installing a mod called The Minimalist Project) it's still a damn fine thieving game. Some cool new ideas were introduced, the writing and sound are still the best out there, and the story is at par with, and perhaps even better than The Dark Project's.

As for The Shalebridge Cradle in Thief 3... trust me, the less you know, the better the mission will be for you :p. Try to avoid reading about the level so nothing's really spoiled.

DarthMRN on 30/12/2005 at 03:30

T2 has a confusing storyline, and is a lot brighter and "cleaner" in style than T1. It has no real scary missions, which sounds like a winner for you. The mission types are unlike T1's quite similar in nature with less diversity in gameplay and surroundlings, IMO creating a slightly boring game experience. Garrett's voice is slightly different and while superbly performed, seems more like an attempt at copying the voice from T1 than the actual thing.
Despite these minor flaws seen from the eye of an overly critical beholder, it is still Thief 1 with updated graphics and even more thieving space to explore.

T3 is a mockery of its pedecessors and should be bought for the Cradle and the sake of Thief fandom alone. Minimalist Age is a must.

Zeebok on 30/12/2005 at 03:45

That's almost ironic, I just beat Thief Gold yesterday for the first time, and am now playing through Thief 2 for the first time. Looking forward to playing Thief 3 since that's the game that got me really into the series in the first place. :D

CD Set on 30/12/2005 at 13:22

Thanks for the answers! :thumb:

You said T2 focused more on burglary and actually stealing stuff? Because that was something I kinda felt missing in T1. Sure, you had to steal artifacts and whatnot, but I would love more missions like Lord Bafford's Manor, where you break into someone's house and the like. Are there any good fan-made missions like that?

Also, what exactly does this "Thiefbot" do? Fix various bugs and glitches?

T-Smith on 30/12/2005 at 15:39

Quote Posted by CD Set

In Thief 3, there was a glitch that shipped with the game, where when you saved and reloaded your game, the difficulty level would be reset to normal. Ion Storm eventually released a patch for this, but before then, a fan made program called Theif bot was made. Basically, you run it on on your computer as you play Thief 3. It allows you to set your own levels for things like enemy sensativity, how well they hear, see, how many hit points they have. A lot of fans felt Thief 3 was too easy, even on the hardest difficulty, so they use this to jack the game up.

As for fan missions - I really never played that many for Thief 1. However, I've played a ton for Thief 2. Before you even think about downloading any single fan missions, I'd recommend first downloading Thief 2X: Shadows of the Metal Age. It's a fan-made mission campaign that takes place before and during the events of Thief 2. It's just as long and well made as the original game, and a must play for anyone who has completed The Metal Age.

CD Set on 30/12/2005 at 23:14

I've heard from some people who thinks T3 is the worst in the series. Is it really that bad? What is it that makes it inferior to the earlier parts? :confused:

DarthMRN on 31/12/2005 at 00:11

Ah, where to begin...

It is short, for starters. I don't know if the playing time is really that much reduced compared to the others, but it is definetly shorter than them. The missions are fewer, but playing time is upped due to endless walks back and forth in the City streets to get to and from your objectives.

The levels are small and cramped, as are the narrow hallways and caverns in them. This creates a rather linear feel to the game enen though it offers plenty of paths to your objective (for the most part anyway), because it feels like you are trapped on a path with only two ways to go, back or forward.

The AI is messed up. They were supposed to have these great investigative skills, but they really just wander around aimlessly until their supernatural hearing picks up footsteps and compels them to charge in your direction, something that coupled with the crampy space really makes it hard to make a cool Garrett-style getaway.

Your sword is gone, replaced by a dagger, thus eliminating the for its time excellent fencing system of the predecessors, and reducing fights to standard third person run-around-your-opponent-in-circles-buttonmashing-until-one-of-you-dies combat. In first person, with some practice, it can get a little convincing, but not much.

And of course it is third person this time around. You have the option of first person view, but the option of simply swiching to the outside camera to look behind those corners is just to much of a simplification of the game. Of course, since the leaning has gotten so slow and bears a great risk of removing you from the shadows you stand in, this addition can easily come in handy.

The feel of the movement system is rather odd. This has to do with the inclusion of an actual body for Garrett, and would be a very neat addition, was it not for the ankward movement it creates. You feel far from the nimble and graceful Thief of TDP and TMA when engaged in combat, or pretty much anywhere else.

One of the coolest gadgets of the old Thiefs, the Rope Arrow, is now replaced by a pair of gloves you can use to climb walls. And while this can be cool enough, they never allow you tha same freedom of use and exploration ability the rope arrows did, and are practically useless except for in specially scripted parts.

Equipment is easy to get a hold of, can be bought for loot and is kept permanently until spent, making it a pure act of fandom to bother conserving any of it for later. The game itself can be completed without ever bying anything, and rarely spending any of it, and can as a result be dominated through excessive use of gadgets. You need not be Thief, you can be Batman.

Maybe I will add more later, and fix some typos. I gotta walk my dog now.

Domarius on 5/1/2006 at 12:37

Basicaly, all 3 games are good in their own right. The only reason heaps of people haven't responded with their definitive answer on which one is the best (all 3 have their own fan bases it seems) is they're probably sick of doing it.

The only thing that can probably be shared by the community in general is that there is a certain amount of "dumbing down" in T3 because of the XBox port, but it's still an awesome Theif game. You COULD call it the worst in the series, but its not worse by very much IMO.

Dia on 5/1/2006 at 14:35

Quote Posted by CD Set

I've heard from some people who thinks T3 is the worst in the series. Is it really that bad? What is it that makes it inferior to the earlier parts? :confused:

I have to agree with DarthMRN; T3 was so very different from T2 (my fave)that, to me, it almost wasn't a Thief game. I mourn the loss of the rope arrow & sword (can't slash banners properly with a stupid dagger, or slice guards' heads open). But what I missed the most was the non-linear gameplay found in the first two. Of course, as Domarius posted, this was because T3 was (hurriedly) adapted from the XBox version (instead of stupid, greedy people taking the time to recreate it specifically for the PC), so you don't have the freedom you did in the first two. Also, I detested the way the "loot" glimmered at you from about a mile away. The graphics were good, but the lighting was wierd (the motes drove me nuts!). I think with T3 you have to try to keep an open mind and realize it's not T2 reincarnate.

As far as T2X is concerned, be warned: it does NOT have Garrett in it. It was fun & interesting, but too many undead imho. There are soooo many FMs out now for all three games that it's hard to choose which to play first (so I usually alternate between 2 & 3 at a time). Have fun & watch out for the Cradle! :ebil: