Knock 'em out!... But what's the catch?

TheGrimSmile on 10/6/2008 at 04:59

As a final note, this came to my attention while I was posting on another topic.

During training in TDP, Garrett was told how to use the bow and sword (in hand-to-hand combat), but never the bj. Do you suppose this was to let the player be exposed to the option by experiance?

But that's taking the game to the level of gameplay. On the plot front, I suppose the Keepers never intended Garrett to be using a bj when he started out.

When's the last time you saw a Keeper using a bow?

Weasel on 10/6/2008 at 17:19

Quote Posted by TheGrimSmile

When's the last time you saw a Keeper using a bow?

Equilibrium! But maybe you don't count that.

I don't remember exactly how long it took me to learn the fine art of black-jacking, but I do know that when I played the demo of the first game (over and over) back in '98, I did a lot of backstabbing and arrow-sniping. I think I actually assumed the blackjack wouldn't be very useful, maybe until I read about its use online.

TheGrimSmile on 11/6/2008 at 02:46

Quote Posted by Weasel

Looked it up, played it, got angry, and quit XD

No, that doesn't count.

Maybe the bow training is more for strengthening their wrists. Ya know, with all that writing and wavaing about of wands...

A little off subject now, aren't we XD

The Juggler on 12/6/2008 at 02:38

I bloody love the blackjack, and wouldn't like to thieve without it. You can switch off a guard without killing him, in one shot, silently, permanently. Master the peer forward trick to bosh a searching guard before he sees you and you're away.

Just clean up the bodies when you're done.

Arod Nine on 12/6/2008 at 08:00

One thing that annoyed me with the blackjack, I was playing the Angelwatch level and I'd got up to the bit where Master Willey's servants and Lady Van Vernon's were having their hilarious argument. I waited for the fight to end, and there was one guy of Lady Van Vernon's left alive. Waited for him to calm down, snuck round behind him and whacked him on the head. Well, the poor guy must have had one health point left because it killed him. Damn it.

kamyk on 14/6/2008 at 22:20

Saying blackjacking is too easy isn't entirely accurate. There are those, (myself included) who sometimes make a goal out of knocking out every AI in a mission. That isn't always so simple, sometimes it can be even harder than just ghosting them, as you have to not only time the guards/AI, but also plot out knocking them out, and removing the body to a good hiding spot before being seen. Also, sometimes some of the AI can be a serious challenge to KO, depending on their patrol intersections, or facings.

The concept:Not to just run around knocking people out, and not caring if the body is seen as long as you get away. Not just knocking out the occasional AI in your way. Use no sword, no arrows, no mines or bombs. Just you, the BJ and the shadows (and possibly water/moss arrows) knocking out EVERY KO'able AI in the entire mission. no matter how hard that might be - without being seen. Consider it similar to ghosting, with lots of concussions. Mission stats:0 bodies discovered. 100% loot, 0 kills (except undead, spiders, etc - which can't be KO'd). Try it sometime. It isn't as eay as you think, depending on the mission involved. Try knocking out all the AI in Cragscleft, not some, ALL (except the zombies, and spiders). Or the Night in Rocksbourg:A new beginning FM. It can be quite challenging.

Chade on 14/6/2008 at 22:38

Just jump up and down, then lean forward and clock them when they come to investigate ... :p

(Assuming I remember correctly)

kamyk on 14/6/2008 at 23:07

Once they come to investigate (are alerted) they aren't KO'able till they calm back down. Besides, the idea is to stealthily KO them all whenever possible. In Cragscleft it is possible to stealthily KO every Human AI in the mission except two you have to spook first (and the prisoners, unless you are extremely patient).

Nightstroll on 15/6/2008 at 16:45

I thought the old debate ghosting / blackjacking was dead and buried...

Personnally, I see 3 reasons why I don't ghost and blackjack each time I can :

- In FMs, you rarely know if the author made ghosting possible. Very frustrating to ghost par of a mission and finally have to BJ some people later.

- When you're looking for secrets, loot, or simply a passage because you're stuck (especially in city missions), having to avoid AIs each time you pass, with no more challenge each time (it's always the same thing), it can really become a pain in the ass.

- It is SO elitist ! I've already seen people who were treating others like noobs because they took pleasure in blackjacking everything, it's a sufficient reason for me not to accept this...diktat of the ghosting. I do love blackjacking everybody and I don't forget a game is meant to be played (uh yes ?).

I just can't imagine Garrett without his huge black club (one of the rare mdoels which haven't been remade, you ghosters, trying to impose your views by fallacious means ! :p ). Anybody who thinks blackjacking is a way too easy way to do missions should try the Ultimate Difficulty Pack. Really.

Thief13x on 15/6/2008 at 17:25

if I try to ghost I have to load the game. I prefer the challenge of passing a mission without saving/loading over passing a mission without using the blackjack.