Volitions Advocate on 20/7/2008 at 17:14
DISCLAIMER: I"m not using spoiler tags in this post because its pretty much all that I will be writing so if you dont want deal with it don't read it.
Alright so I just bought Mass Effect and I'm really enjoying it, I'm not going to talk about gameplay and features and what not, This post is all about plot.
I"ve been playing for a few hours in game. The learning curve is a little on the steep side, but manageable so im probably not as far into the game as I should be with how much time i've spent playing it. But I think i've just figured out what the big scary enemy is, they call them Reapers. And they're a race of machines. So way back millennia ago the big crazy advanced civilisation that basically created all the technology the galaxy uses was destroyed by *DUNDUNDUN....* the reapers. And somebody else has created another machine race that rebelled on them called the Geth and they look towards the reapers as gods etc etc blahblahblah... So my guess is the reapers are going to try to come back and destroy all the biotic life in the galaxy. great.
who did that first? lets make a list.
We've got the Terminator, subject of a thread in the community forum.
the Matrix.
We've even got allusions to it in the Unreal universe somewhere.
System Shock isn't quite to that scale, and I dont particularly think they ripped off this same concept.
I think the first person would be Frank Herbert.
If any of you have read Dune you know thats where the series is really headed. The very last book has yet to be released but i know whats going to be in it. Its the Machines coming back to get revenge for the Butlerian Jihad. You'd know what this was if you were a fan of Herberts work. (which has NEVER been sucessfully adapted to the screen, despite what the critics say)
I dont want to enrage any fanboys here but its my opinion that HL1 was a complete ripoff of Doom. Just swap Xen with Hell and Black Mesa with Phobos and you've basically got the same game. With HL2 mind you they took it in a different direction of course. But then really ou've got HL2 and Prey basically following the same plot with the Sphere and the Combine basically being the same as the Borg and prehaps the Flood.
Halo perhaps was a little more original... maybe. I"m straining my brain right now for the story they HAD to have ripped off, and I can't find it. But I had my suspicions by the end of Halo that Humanity was the forerunners, and it was all but confirmed by the end of Halo 2, and by th etime the teaser for Halo 3 came out I knew that was the case. I still havent played it yet. and I plan to..... ONCE. Just to get the story straight in my head. (say what you will about the halo series, but the original did, in-fact, rock) So where else has the big plot twist at the end been "it was humans all along"? I KNOW I've seen it before in this kind of thing but I can't think of where it was.
I'm rambling and im sure much of this is disjointed and nonsense.. but!
Are there any games out there that have a Totally completely new plot? Something not done by anyone else? I'm not talking game mechanics, just the plot.
I've got a great idea that i've been mulling around with making my own mod for, one that nobody else has really done or come close to, but I'm probably just full of crap and dont' realize it.
anyway, really im just trying to spark discussion and I want to hear about these games you guys have played that are in a story all their own.
Jason Moyer on 20/7/2008 at 17:33
You were expecting originality in a Bioware title? Seriously?
van HellSing on 20/7/2008 at 17:34
Everything has been done before. "Machines vs. humans" for example has been around long before Herbert (as in, say, the golem myth), and is in itself a version of your classic generational conflict seen in most ancient mythologies, where the younger generation of gods overthrows the older.
Thirith on 20/7/2008 at 18:20
I'll take a well executed take on an old story over forced originality any day of the week.
Ideally we get something well executed and original, of course, but by and large I believe that there is nothing new under the sun, just variations of what has already been. That's why I put more faith in (storytelling) craft than in originality.
What is called "original" most of the time is the unexpected combination of old motifs and stories anyway. Which is fair enough, but so many people have this totally unrealistic, naive belief in something totally new, totally original.
addink on 20/7/2008 at 18:42
Obligatory "Planescape: Torment" mention.
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The basic good vs evil plot can be found everywhere and lies at the root of most games because of the need of a clear objective. There has to be a clear motivation for the player to start doing stuff.
There is of course the option to leave out a clear objective, but that is either boring, or in the end it'll lead to a good vs evil setup anyway.
The only fresh forms of motivational plots in games appear when the good and evil is being scrambled. The often used factions with opposing ideals, come to mind. Or screwing with the players perception, allowing good and evil to be switched. Stalker for instance does all of this. As does The Witcher.
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EDIT: what Thirith said.
Second Sight for instance has at it's core a very basic evil guy (a scientist trying to create a an army of psychics), yet the way the story is told leads to a very nice twist in that After awakening in an experimental mental institution, suffering from vivid flashbacks (that explain what happened), you slowly discover that the flashbacks are actually now, and the times you thought were now are vivid premonitions; allowing you to change the outcome
Volitions Advocate on 20/7/2008 at 19:22
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
You were expecting originality in a Bioware title? Seriously?
I've never played a BioWare title before, thanks for the perfectly valid point of discussion.
vanHellsing: Its almost like a trap isn't it?
I"m a musician too and its like no matter what you try to write, really you're just ripping off a part of somebody elses work. I'll fully admit that in my music. It usually comes out in more of a venn diagram.
I've never played the Witcher or Second Sight. Second Sight sounds cool though.
Do you think theres any good story telling that doesn't invovle specifically good and evil?
Something like Aliens comes to mind as an example. Though it only makes you think the bad guy is the alien with no moral compass, the stuggle, though often viscerally is with the alien, is actually with the Company trying To exploit it to their own evil designs.
Any examples you can thinking without the good/evil struggle?
I also agree with you Thirith about how well they're executed.
I"m not complaining about Mass Effect. because it is very well executed I think, its just the example that sparked my desire to discuss.
a flower in hell on 20/7/2008 at 19:41
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
You were expecting originality in a Bioware title? Seriously?
x2
Also, there's no such thing as an original thought. Whatever it is, someone else has probably thought of it already.
van HellSing on 20/7/2008 at 19:51
Quote:
Do you think theres any good story telling that doesn't invovle specifically good and evil?
Of course, though ha!, honestly I can't really think of an example in gaming.
a flower in hell on 20/7/2008 at 19:55
Sports games, puzzle games, things of that nature.
Volitions Advocate on 20/7/2008 at 20:00
yeah but there's no story telling in those.
Unless you're thinking of things like Myst or 7th Guest.
But theres definately the good/evil thing there.
