demagogue on 17/1/2013 at 01:30
Quote Posted by Ulukai
So I learnt, "Mein name ist Duo!"
"Sie nennen mich den Space Cowboy."
Briareos H on 17/1/2013 at 08:08
Quote Posted by Neb
Back when I started learning Polish I gave Rosetta Stone a go. I couldn't handle using it for more than about an hour because it exists in a bizarre existential utopia world that I don't recognize, where everyone looks perfect in their perfect houses, with perfect weather, perfect smiles, and perfectly drama free relationships.
I know that it's meant to be marketed to as wide an audience as possible, but it's just amusingly alienating sometimes.
This annoyed me too. The political correctness and forced multiculturalism of stock photos, independent of any cultural differences in the target language makes it very, very unsettling. Don't teach me the uses of the word rice by making me pick a picture between one of the following perfectly shot, stock-looking photos:
* A woman in traditional japanese yukata feeding some rice to a little black boy;
* A middle-aged blonde woman in an american kitchen frying some rice with a disgusting amount of oil;
* A group of 6 children of all colors (obligatory arab, black, asian and black girl) on a field trip, picking rice with their pretty-looking boots;
* An elderly couple, obviously american, serving together some cakes with rice in their expensive-looking manor.
Don't make me do that, understood Rosetta Stone? ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO TEACH ME FUCKING RUSSIAN
SubJeff on 17/1/2013 at 08:26
Political correctness! Ha ha. I've even encountered it in Duolingo, in the comments!
People commenting on the "insensitivity" of "I have no skirts, because I am a man" or on "she does not eat fish" with a veggie moan on sentience and animal suffering.
PCness is so, so irritating when it's thrown about all over the place.
Ulukai on 17/1/2013 at 09:16
Quote Posted by Briareos H
This annoyed me too. The political correctness and forced multiculturalism of stock photos, independent of any cultural differences in the target language makes it very, very unsettling.
It's tempting to e-mail Rosetta Stone and suggest alternative scenarios, just to see if their response is as cloying and PC.
I propose a man entering a toilet cubicle, where you have to translate "I may be some time". You learn more when you're having fun!
Quote Posted by Briareos H
I selected the french language, trying to go as far as I could by doing the tests straight away. I lost all my hearts at the first basic phrases lesson (the second lesson), because questions and answers were either misleading or plain wrong.
Examples? I did the basic French test straight off the bat, and got everything right. Didn't feel misled in anyway.
Briareos H on 17/1/2013 at 10:05
Quote Posted by Ulukai
It's tempting to e-mail Rosetta Stone and suggest alternative scenarios, just to see if their response is as cloying and PC.
I'm not asking for gritty realism (though I'd definitely enjoy it :cool:), but having pictures that are appropriate to the culture you are being taught would help shake off that feeling that you're in an american TV ad or an online poll to choose the best pictures for a human relations website. For the amount of money they ask, I'm sure they could fly a photographer to Russia.
Quote Posted by Ulukai
Examples? I did the basic French test straight off the bat, and got everything right. Didn't feel misled in anyway.
These are stupid things I noted during the first test for "basic phrases":
Translate "Nor need we" into French. I wasn't able to understand that they meant "We neither", and none of the possible literal translations ("ni n'avons nous besoin" for example, which is ugly out of context anyway) were accepted. Is that even a common phrase in English?
Pick the correct translations for "I am good" among "Je suis bon", "Je suis bonne", "Je suis là". In the context of a basic phrases lessons, none of these answers should be accepted. Except maybe the last one, in a very particular context. Duolingo accepts the first two choices, which are literal and very seldom used in French.
Translate "You are welcome" into French. The correct answer for Duolingo is "Tu es la bienvenue". However grammatically correct "Tu es la bienvenue" is, it is completely wrong in the context of the exercise which is is about learning common expressions and not making literal translations. In addition, the feminine gender comes out of nowhere and might mislead. "Je vous en prie." or "Je t'en prie." is the correct answer.
Translate "Non, tu bois l'eau" into English. Literally, it is "No, you drink the water". Duolingo makes no mistake here but, once again, is that really a phrase common enough to be included in the test? Teaching "Tu bois de l'eau" ("You drink water") would be much more useful to a beginner at that point, unless they want to sound like Hannibal Lecter on their first trip to France.
In addition, some of the synthesized speech is completely unintelligible, even for a native speaker.
Finally, there should be an option to make punctuation checks on the answers. Learning the right way to write a language is best done early on, if I taught French I wouldn't accept misplaced or missing commas, spaces in excess or wrong capitalisation. Duolingo just doesn't care.
Ulukai on 17/1/2013 at 10:37
Quote Posted by Briareos H
Translate "You are welcome" into French. The correct answer for Duolingo is "Tu es la bienvenue". However grammatically correct "Tu es la bienvenue" is, it is completely wrong in the context of the exercise which is is about learning common expressions and not making literal translations. In addition, the feminine gender comes out of nowhere and might mislead. "Je vous en prie." or "Je t'en prie." is the correct answer.
Can't comment on some things since they didn't crop up in my test, but Duolingo accepted "Merci, de rien" as the means of saying "Thank you, you're welcome", which is conversationally correct? This is also taught if you go back and do the lessons. It then also suggested that "Tu es la bienvenue" was also a valid answer. I suppose this was slightly odd.
Quote:
In addition, some of the synthesized speech is completely unintelligible, even for a native speaker.
Finally, there should be an option to make punctuation checks on the answers. Learning the right way to write a language is best done early on, if I taught French I wouldn't accept misplaced or missing commas, spaces in excess or wrong capitalisation. Duolingo just doesn't care.
I've had one instance of having difficulty with the speech, but I wouldn't describe any of it as completely unintelligible. Pressing "Slower" certainly enabled me to then decipher what was being said on the one occasion when I was having difficulty. Interestingly, the German lessons do point out capitalisation mistakes (All German nouns are captialised).
Quote:
Translate "Non, tu bois l'eau" into English. Literally, it is "No, you drink the water". Duolingo makes no mistake here but, once again, is that really a phrase common enough to be included in the test?
Why not? It's a test. I've had time now to go back and do some of the lessons, and they seem to be randomised to some extent, focusing on things you have made mistakes on. The test is only a subset of what you've been taught, so if I'm saying I feel comfortable talking about drinking water by taking the test, then I'd expected to be tested on that in different contexts.
For what it is, it's not bad. I think it could complement tutor based learning quite well, especially for practising vocab. Wouldn't want to learn a language from scratch with it though. Had a quick go at the Italian and Jesus H Christ on a bike I'm bamboozled.
SubJeff on 20/1/2013 at 23:33
Well I'm just back from my jollies to Tenerife and had a chance to try a little bit of Spanish which I'd learned only from Duolingo.
Tenerife is a pretty amazing island. Its about the size of Fuerteventura but the fact you can go from sea level to 3700ms in 15 miles means you get some amazing views from the highlands. The pine forests in the West part of the volcanic plain are like another planet, especially when you are looking down on the clouds and can see the other Canary Islands peeking out from under them.
Anyways, as far as the lingo goes it was a mixed bag. I was definitely able to ask for more stuff, like where things were or if places had (sold) things. There were a few things that must be different in Latin and Spanish Spanish as I was completely unable to be understood when I asked if I could pay, anywhere. Perhaps you just ask for the bill though, rather than saying "Can I pay please?"
As always its a mixed bag for me - half the people I meet in the Mediterranean instantly think I'm Greek, Spanish, Israeli, Italian, etc and just start speaking in whatever language (and I know they don't do it for everyone because my gf, blonde and Lithuanian, never gets this, ever). Of course when they do this they don't slow down and I'm bamboozled.
So I found that if I attempted Spanish slowly some of the people twigged that I wasn't a native and all was well, but a fair proportion of these just tried it on in English. The only places I really found I could give it a go were young Spanish chaps who spoke no, or very little, English. In those cases, where I had the time and the patience of the person I was talking to, I was very pleased with what I've learnt from Duolingo and I'm definitely going to finish the entire Spanish course.
<a href="http://imgur.com/ugwumbu"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/ugwumbu.jpg?1" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /></a>
Kolya on 21/1/2013 at 02:02
Quote Posted by demagogue
"Sie nennen mich den Space Cowboy."
...und sagen ich hätt'n Knall
Sie können nichts ahnen
von der Einsamkeit im All
Ich suche ein Mädchen
ihr meine Sorgen zu erzählen
wenn ich ihr Sternsystem verlasse
wird sie mir wieder fehlen
Space Cowboy, wirst du's überstehen?
Jeden Tag werden Mädchen 18
Laufen von zuhause weg um am Weltraumhafen zu stehn
und dich zu fragen "Darf ich mit dir gehen?"
;)
demagogue on 21/1/2013 at 11:46
I should have guessed it was a thing too :cool:
<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QC6equl4kTA?version=3&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QC6equl4kTA?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed>
This reminds me that translation is something I like to do, when it turns out good anyway. My (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO9LLRcweYc) Doraemon translation from Japanese has been a pretty big hit, and I like my translation of Carla Bruni's Quelqu'un M'a Dit, although I took some of it from other translations. It's a great song when you know what it's saying. Anybody else do creative translation sometimes?
Quote:
Somebody Told Me
(Carla Bruni/Quelqu'un M'a Dit/English cover)
Intro: A - E - F#m - Dsus2
I've heard it said that life just comes and goes
It passes in an instant like a wilting rose
I'm told that time makes light of all our woes
Wears them like a gown while we're left exposed
But somebody told me...
That you still loved me.
Yes somebody told me...
That you still loved me.
Could this possibly be?
I've heard it said that destiny is cruel
Promises the world, then laughs in ridicule
You think it's in your hands, that you're in control
But you look again. You're wrong. You're just a fool
But somebody told me...
That you still loved me.
Yes somebody told me...
That you still loved me.
Could this possibly be?
Who was it told me that you've loved me all along?
I wish I could remember, but the face is gone.
I just recall a voice that whispered in my ear
"She loves you. It's a secret. Don't let her hear."
See? Somebody told me...
That you still loved me.
Yes, somebody told me...
That you still loved me.
Could this possibly be?
[solo]
I've heard it said that life just comes and goes
It passes in an instant like a wilting rose
I'm told that time makes light of all our woes
Wears them like a gown while we're still exposed
And yet somebody told me...
That you still loved me.
I swear they said to me...
That you still loved me.
Could this possibly be?
faetal on 21/1/2013 at 12:27
Hmmm. I need to learn French soon too as I hope to be moving there early next year.
I won't need it for work, but I know I couldn't stand being one of those "parlais vous Anglais?" ex-pat types.
