Let's talk about the Builder Paradise!

massimilianogoi on 26/9/2009 at 11:47

Hmmm :nono: In TDS was described only a part of the city, not the whole one, so we don't know in what conditions are the other parts. Without mentioning Markahm Isle and its residents, and the Cetus Amicus, which, staying on what said that old fisherman, is still functioning in some place of the sea.

I think you wanna erase the Mech, it's your personal desire, but they aren't yet completely erased.

Namdrol on 26/9/2009 at 12:14

Yea, maybe there's small groups of heretical mechs clinging on to a few bits and pieces. Away from the city there could possibly be all sorts that escaped the Hammerites cleansing.
And the mech didn't arise from nothing, it was a product of its time.
And some where in the world all sorts may have grown up in a parallel development.

jtr7 on 26/9/2009 at 12:27

Quote Posted by massimilianogoi

:(
I keep saying things in your favor and you never see them. I did not say what you think I said. I hope you are exaggerating on purpose.

Do what you want for your fan-fiction and fan missions. Have your fantasies and enjoy making up stories for your favorite Thiefy characters and factions and things. I don't see why your fantasies have to override canon when you are free to do what you want outside of it. You are discounting most of what the games state plainly and thematically, and clinging to a little. It's like people wanting Viktoria back, and the Trickster back, and the Glyphs back, and Artemus, and Karras. In the story, they are all gone. Outside the story, and outside the games, we can do whatever we want. I'm not going to explain the story to you anymore. I already gave up on you about this a long time ago, and told you so. You feel threatened for some weird reason and say things that aren't true. The story does not grant your big wishes, but you can do what you want outside of it, no limits. :mad:

massimilianogoi on 26/9/2009 at 16:06

Quote Posted by jtr7

... In the story, they are all gone...

This isn't true. Answer to these question:

What happened to Markham Isle?
What happened to the Mechanists that were in the mines as explorer?
What happened to the Cetus Amicus?

We will never know it. But this won't mean that they are disappeared. As I've already said, Karras is the only one that (maybe) died, and we all know that the Mechs, with all their facilities, were superior in strength to the Hammerites, plus they had corrupted the nobles, so they had their favour. Therefore, what the Keepers told to the people after the defeat of Soulforge could have been not believed.

We only know what it's wrote on that museum, nothing more, and neither how it was executed that "Heresy Trial", in other words we know nothing about.

The Mechs could be all dead, like all alive.

Solabusca on 26/9/2009 at 20:39

Quote Posted by massimilianogoi

This isn't true. Answer to these question:

What happened to Markham Isle?

Unknown. Likely dismantled.

Quote Posted by massimilianogoi

What happened to the Mechanists that were in the mines as explorer?

Unknown. Likely dead, as they only had one way into the Lost City (ie, the Cetus Amicus.

Quote Posted by massimilianogoi

What happened to the Cetus Amicus?

Unknown, possibly destroyed. And the fisherperson you reference earlier on appears to be talking about the Cetus Amicus 'back in the day', not as a recent occurrence. They probably saw it during the heyday of the Mechanists.

Quote Posted by massimilianogoi

We will never know it. But this won't mean that they are disappeared. As I've already said, Karras is the only one that (maybe) died, and we all know that the Mechs, with all their facilities, were superior in strength to the Hammerites, plus they had corrupted the nobles, so they had their favour. Therefore, what the Keepers told to the people after the defeat of Soulforge could have been not believed.

Umm, no. We know that Karras gathered the best and brightest of the remaining Mechanists and converted them to servants in Soulforge. Which we also know was destroyed. There may have been a few outlying churches, but Karras was the charismatic centre - when he called, everyone came running.

And you lose noble favour AWFULLY quick when it turns out you're planning on killing off the City. The Mechanists would have quickly become Persona Non-Gratia around town, for certain.

Quote Posted by massimilianogoi

We only know what it's wrote on that museum, nothing more, and neither how it was executed that "Heresy Trial", in other words we know nothing about.

We know enough to know that they've been hounded either out of existence, or into a small underground cult.

But this is sort of speaking to the wall. You believe what you want to believe, and ignore all in-game information to the contrary.

.j.

massimilianogoi on 26/9/2009 at 21:35

Quote Posted by Solabusca

But this is sort of speaking to the wall. You believe what you want to believe, and ignore all in-game information to the contrary.

.j.

In-game informations that are insufficient.

LIKELY dead? LIKELY dismanted? WHO we are to judge this? As I've early told, none of us knows what happens to that site and to that person. The only possible solution is asking to the storyline original writers where the Mechs ended up, as they are the only owners of that universe.

Goldmoon Dawn on 26/9/2009 at 22:39

Quote Posted by massimilianogoi

The only possible solution is asking to the storyline original writers where the Mechs ended up, as they are the only owners of that universe.

OK, there you have it! You start working on contacting Looking Glass, and we will, um, well, we will just stand by and wait for your triumphant return. :) Go on now, hurry hurry. And please, be sure to let us know what they said, as I am sure that we are all very very interested in this!

massimilianogoi on 26/9/2009 at 23:00

Never say "never" hehe :ebil:

Darlok on 27/9/2009 at 12:48

Here are some answers for Massi
The Order's Downfall:

Quote:

Thus the effects of the gas were contained within the Cathedral and the only deaths caused were those of Karras and his devoted followers who had undergone the Servant Process. The Mechanists, of course, attempted to hide the death of their leader with misinformation. It was decided by the Keeper Council soon after, however, to anonymously release the truth of the matter.
Once this plot was made known, the Mechanists became a blight upon the City. They were ignored when possible, and hated in secret. And sometimes in public as well. During one incident several Mechanists were sighted in the street and beaten to death by an angry mob before the City Watch could respond. Although the only incident of violence resulting from the news, the event made it painfully obvious to even the Mechanists that they would never be welcome again in the City. Thus the Order was disbanded and its members left with nothing. Yet some clung to hope - hope that the Hammerites would take them back. Most of the Mechanists who had left the Order with Karras originally petitioned for readmittance into the Order of the Hammer. Although the subject was debated at some length by the Hammerite Priesthood, the petitioners were eventually allowed to rejoin and submit to whatever penance the Order decreed. Thus the Order of the Gear and the legacy of Karras passed into history.

Soulforge:

Quote:

After the death of Karras, SoulForge was purchased by the Order of the Hammer and left to ruin as an example to others. Any salvageable equipment was removed, of course, but the building itself stands still and silent on the outskirts of Downtowne. Repeated attempts by the City Council to have it destroyed have fallen upon deaf ears within the Hammerite Order. Only time will tell how long it sits empty and unused.

Cetus&Markham's Isle:

Quote:

The layout of the base is far more haphazard than other Mechanist facilities and is centered around the cavern which houses the Cetus Amicus. It has lain undisturbed since the fall of the Order and remains there still.

More about the mechanists' downfall can be read here. It is indeed very interesting, and seems to be "official":
(http://www.omegacron.com/games/thief/library/mechanists.htm)

Herr_Garrett on 27/9/2009 at 13:15

That's not canon. It is indeed interesting, but fanon.