Level scaling OR Don't play RPGs then girlie man. - by SubJeff
fett on 11/1/2011 at 04:29
Quote Posted by steo
fett makes a damn good point...
Hey, I admittedly suck at gaming. I can't make it past the first 10 minutes of Stalker on Easy. I'm just saying, I played the game, had a great time, and never noticed any of this shit you guys are talking about. Ignorance is bliss I guess...:)
Nameless Voice on 11/1/2011 at 04:39
The first ten minutes of Stalker are probably the hardest ten minutes in the game, since you don't have any good weapons or armour yet.
june gloom on 11/1/2011 at 04:50
... Except for in Shadow of Chernobyl where there's some pretty good mid-range armor in an attic in the little starting village.
Nameless Voice on 11/1/2011 at 05:03
Yeah, I never did find that, oh well.
june gloom on 11/1/2011 at 05:21
It's in the house behind Wolf, I think, and you kinda have to climb out onto the roof to do it. It involves some kinda careful reaching into an otherwise inaccessible compartment of the attic, by climbing onto the roof, walking over, and reaching in through a gap, IIRC.
Thirith on 11/1/2011 at 07:35
Quote Posted by fett
You guys are all on crack. I played Oblivion beginning to end on both PC and XBox without any mods and I never even noticed scaling. I'd actually be hard pressed to describe what it is to someone else. The AI always seemed about perfect for my skill levels, and it never got too easy. The corresponding loot and items they guarded was also about right. The AI also seemed incredibly well balanced in Bioshock as well (iirc someone said BS used scaling). Based on those two games, I'd say whatever scaling is, it works. What am I missing? :confused:
As a tendency the issue is much more noticeable if you focus on non-combat skills. Say you want to make a sneaky character that's good at stealth and social skills; as you level up, you don't get much better at combat, but the enemies get stronger, so after a few levels the same bandits that you managed to kill quite easily at the beginning are suddenly able to wipe the floor with you. I guess that the average player went into the game wanting to beat up people good (nothing wrong with that), so they didn't really encounter the problem.
Having said that, even if you're one of the people for whom the scaling wasn't a problem, it is silly that bandits suddenly start wearing the rarest, most expensive glass armour simply because you levelled up. Unless it's some sly comment on the escalation of violence... :p
DDL on 11/1/2011 at 12:38
Especially since their demands don't scale, so you get a khajit in full glass armour demanding you pay him a whole 200 gold...:D
Jason Moyer on 11/1/2011 at 17:13
Quote Posted by Thirith
As a tendency the issue is much more noticeable if you focus on non-combat skills. Say you want to make a sneaky character that's good at stealth and social skills; as you level up, you don't get much better at combat, but the enemies get stronger, so after a few levels the same bandits that you managed to kill quite easily at the beginning are suddenly able to wipe the floor with you.
A well-balanced RPG, even without level scaling, should still kick your ass in combat if you're focusing on non-combat skills. What's the point of even having a skill system if you're putting all of your time into levelling stealth and speech and then you can just wander out into the wilderness and beat the fuck out of things?
Thirith on 11/1/2011 at 17:18
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
A well-balanced RPG, even without level scaling, should still kick your ass in combat if you're focusing on non-combat skills. What's the point of even having a skill system if you're putting all of your time into levelling stealth and speech and then you can just wander out into the wilderness and beat the fuck out of things?
That's not what I said, though. Why should the bandits become *better* at kicking your ass when you level up in stealth and speech? I'm not saying you should get better at kicking their ass (except by using stealth), but
Oblivion's system means that you get worse and worse at fighting *the same opponents* as you level up in non-combat skills.
WingedKagouti on 11/1/2011 at 19:05
Quote Posted by Thirith
That's not what I said, though. Why should the bandits become *better* at kicking your ass when you level up in stealth and speech? I'm not saying you should get better at kicking their ass (except by using stealth), but
Oblivion's system means that you get worse and worse at fighting *the same opponents* as you level up in non-combat skills.
So, basically you believe that only you (the player character) are allowed to get better as time progresses?
