raevol on 17/9/2008 at 10:27
Quote Posted by Yakoob
raevol, all your thoughts are idealistic and in no way reflect how the market actually works, or how it really looks like.
I understand. I'm more expressing my desire for a change, than saying that things are going to become a certain way. I feel that if game developers recognized Linux as a "real" operating system, and took advantage of the fact that it is open source, things would be awesome. Or at least cheaper, not having to pay the M$ gaming tax.
And they'd probably be more secure and stable and optimized...
The_Raven on 17/9/2008 at 15:52
Quote Posted by raevol
If you asked any PC enthusiast in the past 8 years what they thought of Windows, they'd tell you it's crap.
Windows has been getting better over the years, but is also increasing in bloat at a much faster rate. This is one of the main reasons that I can't wait for (
http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html) ReactOS to properly mature, and I hope by then it will mean that I can drop Windows for good. The main problem with ReactOS is that by reverse engineering the Windows API as closely as possible, it runs the risk of not being any more secure than Windows already is.
Phatose on 17/9/2008 at 17:31
Lord, I hope Linux for gaming never catches on. The last thing we need is even more hoops for PC developers to jump though - it's already a difficult platform to code for when you're doing windows alone. And there you don't have to worry about hotshot hackers editing the kernel. Even if you didn't, further subdivision of the PC gaming market will just mean more developers heading to the consoles. It's already bad enough that they have to target multiple versions of windows with vastly different hardware configurations and try to get it stable enough that they aren't going to be skewered for bugs. Adding in another goddamned OS is just to going make it even worse.
Yakoob on 17/9/2008 at 20:12
Quote Posted by raevol
if game developers recognized Linux as a "real" operating system, and took advantage of the fact that it is open source
Took advantage of it being open source? How exactly do you take advantage of it being open source? By recognizing that cheaters in online games can hack their own kernel for an advantage and there isn't damn thing you can do about it? Introduce your own kernel changes with your game which will majorly piss every single user off? Or rely on any GPL systems of linux which will, in turn, make their game GPL and require them to release their source code which, for any commercial product, is suicide.
When it comes to anything even remotely commercial, "open source" is nothing but a buzz word that actually means the exact opposite of what those who preach it would like you to think.
Quote Posted by The_Raven
Windows has been getting better over the years, but is also increasing in bloat at a much faster rate. This is one of the main reasons that I can't wait for (
http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html) ReactOS to properly mature, and I hope by then it will mean that I can drop Windows for good. The main problem with ReactOS is that by reverse engineering the Windows API as closely as possible, it runs the risk of not being any more secure than Windows already is.
Whoa, this is really cool and impressive. Why hasn't MS sued their ass off yet, though?
Glimpse on 17/9/2008 at 20:27
Quote Posted by Yakoob
Or rely on any GPL systems of linux which will, in turn, make their game GPL and require them to release their source code which, for any commercial product, is suicide.
When it comes to anything even remotely commercial, "open source" is nothing but a buzz word that actually means the exact opposite of what those who preach it would like you to think.
Shite. Open source software is used massively in a commercial environment. FFS google runs most of their shit under linux. My router uses GPL'd code and they did'nt give it away free. Red Hat, Novell, IBM, and Sun to name just a handful all sell open source products.
Chade on 17/9/2008 at 21:22
Using a vastly different business model to the gaming industry.
MMORPGS would probably work, though.
june gloom on 18/9/2008 at 01:47
Holy shit, I agree with both Phatose and Yakoob at once!
Shit. I've been away too long!
Seriously raevol. Linux gaming is probably the worst idea I can think of. Linux is fine for running a server or a database or whathaveyou, but it continues to be a user-unfriendly OS that largely relies on the user being able to do things himself. I like Windows (XP) precisely because I don't have to do fuckall.
@insomnia> it only takes three commands to install Gentoo
@insomnia> cfdisk /dev/hda && mkfs.xfs /dev/hda1 && mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/gentoo/ && chroot /mnt/gentoo/ && env-update && . /etc/profile && emerge sync && cd /usr/portage && scripts/bootsrap.sh && emerge system && emerge vim && vi /etc/fstab && emerge gentoo-dev-sources && cd /usr/src/linux && make menuconfig && make install modules_install && emerge gnome mozilla-firefox openoffice && emerge grub && cp /boot/grub/grub.conf.sample /boot/grub/grub.conf && vi /boot/grub/grub.conf && grub && init 6
@insomnia> that's the first one
The_Raven on 18/9/2008 at 02:06
Quote Posted by Yakoob
Whoa, this is really cool and impressive. Why hasn't MS sued their ass off yet, though?
Probably for the same reason Microsoft hasn't sued the asses off of Linux developers for their use of the FAT32 file system, among other things that MS claims to own. I do know, however, that the ReactOS devs aren't kidding around either. I think it was a year or so ago when they received a complaint that someone found MS code in their project, they ended up doing a complete audit of their code. I guess it goes to show that they're very serious about clean room reverse engineering and keeping everything in the clear.
EDIT: Apparently, this issue is a little more complicated than it initially seemed. It seems that the discovery of MS source code caused some major rifts that culminated in having several senior lead developers leave the project. The results of the audit were never made completely public, and people seem to think the team may be trying to cover something up. I really don't know enough to properly comment on this, but all sorts of statements have been made on both sides. For posterity, I'll post some of the more interesting things that I found in a quick search. Too bad, this seemed like such a good project.
Links:
* (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS#Internal_audit) ReactOS Wiki Section
* (
http://betov.free.fr/ReactOS.html) Comments by a previous contributor to the project
* (
http://www.reactos.org/en/news_page_14.html) Official statement by the ReactOS Team
Yakoob on 18/9/2008 at 04:22
Quote Posted by Glimpse
Shite. Open source software is used massively in a commercial environment. FFS google runs most of their shit under linux. My router uses GPL'd code and they did'nt give it away free. Red Hat, Novell, IBM, and Sun to name just a handful all sell open source products.
And how many of those are games?
Regarding google, there's a difference between "running servers on linux" and "deploying on linux"
Your router wasn't given away for free because it's not a computer program, it's a piece of metal and plastic. GPL relates to code and code only.
As for the companies you mentioned, I do not recall any successful open-source products they're released aside from Red Hat. And even so, how many open source blockbuster applications are there compared to non-open source?
Glimpse on 18/9/2008 at 10:14
Quote Posted by Yakoob
When it comes to anything even remotely commercial, "open source" is nothing but a buzz word that actually means the exact opposite of what those who preach it would like you to think.
This was the sweeping statement to which I was responding, and the examples I gave were simply to show that open source is much more than a buzz word and can be used in many ways to make money.
