Matthew on 9/8/2011 at 17:07
Wait, maybe he IS the weaponised social media!
Gingerbread Man on 9/8/2011 at 17:12
I think we're going to need more than a stink bomb, though.
Pyrian on 9/8/2011 at 18:31
People without something useful to do, doing something...less useful. Or, idle hands do the devil's work, to cite an older maxim. :erg: This sort of thing is one of the reasons I don't think that simply accepting high chronic unemployment of prime age workers is such a good idea.
Warren's Spectre on 9/8/2011 at 18:34
So now the news is saying that no shots were fired at the police. The bullet in the peeler's radio was a ricochet from one of their own bullets. Only 2 shots were fired overall, one into the guy's heart and the other in his arm. Sounds like another Jean Charles de Menezes.
That puts a massively different slant on it and if I knew that and lived in that area as an 'immigrant' that is 'sponging' off the welfare state then I might feel inclined towards certain actions that weren't rational.
It's also pathetic to see the tactlessness of the British media and the politicians who pout out their chests and deliver a message encrypted in a positive tone which essentially says, 'come on then if you think you're hard enough, because you will feel the full force of the "law."' This is so obviously counter productive and makes the police's jobs harder as politicians blanket labeling and lies breed strong feelings of resentment.
Now I'm going to step in before people accuse me of certain sympathies and clarify that I in no way condone the behaviour of the rioters and I detest seeing normal hard working folk suffering. But what I will say is that I'm not as quick as the BBC or the government officials to condemn these 'undesirables' as it was not them who created the environment in which they exist in.
SubJeff on 9/8/2011 at 18:41
Quote Posted by Kuuso
This is because of police mistreatment (which happens surprisingly often even though blown out of proportion), unemployment, student cuts and all sorts of shit Cameron has managed to pull at his time on the chair.
Total and utter steaming bollocks.
This is opportunist looting because now they've seen the police won't really do anything. It's been brewing for years. The combination of social welfare creating losers and liberal leftie approach to policing (in some areas, it's positively draconian in others) has created an untouchable mass who don't give a crap anyway.
Warren's Spectre on 9/8/2011 at 18:48
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Total and utter steaming bollocks.
This is total and utter steaming bollocks.
You shouldn't come down on him so hard for sharing what is a very valid view. Also I don't think you can point me to another example in history of opportunistic looting like this. Destruction on this scale does not happen because of looters. Looting is a very real and disgusting part of what is happening right now but don't just jump into bed with the media and believe that that is all it is about.
Social welfare in the UK is not as high as most other western European countries and yet they have less unemployment so you're just wrong there.
And liberal policing does not exist in the UK. Look how many people have been killed in the North of Ireland because of plastic bullets and the police in London are now armed with them as we speak.
Renzatic on 9/8/2011 at 18:52
Okay, someone needs to explain this to me, because everything I've read about the reasons as to why this is happening are so vague to be almost ridiculous. To recap what I know
Black dude gets shot. People are up in arms over what seems to be a racially motivated murder. Thing is, I have no clue whether this guy was a regular guy with a wife and two kids, who happened to run across a skinhead soccer hooligan in a uniform, or some black English chav gangster wannabe who went running at a cop with his switchblade out.
What's scary to me is that, from what I've read, some people think this is a moot point. "What does it matter? A black guy was shot by a cop. It's obviously racist". Well, yeah, it does matter. See, being black isn't a blanket category. Like every race, sex, or creed, there are nice black people as much as their are assholes. If you have to be told to take the word black out of the equation to see the situation as it is, then you're not nearly as not-racist as you think you are. You're still dividing people up into categories. Your well meaning intentions are just as harmful as flat out racism.
So if it was a racially motivated murder, how does burning down your neighbors house and looting the local Best Buy solve much of anything? There are better ways to air your discontent.
And who's fault is it? There's obviously more here than a response to one guy getting shot. That was merely the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak. I see everyone blaming the leftist and rightist ideals here. "If we didn't let in the immigrants, welfare state hurrdurr/maybe give all our money to the banks and corporations, rich get richer, distribution of wealth hurrdurr, ect ect, we wouldn't be in this mess". It's all dumb.
Yeah. The global economy does suck a bit, and we all have our little to moderate problems to contend with. But you know what? In the grand scheme of things, THEY'RE NOT THAT BAD! I see this more as a problem of our politicians being too busy politicking and polarizing people to get more votes than actual problem with left/right agendas. And the saddest fact of all is that people LOVE IT. Everyone wants to be on the righteous side of things, and will demonize whatever creed or social agenda they don't believe in to feed their self righteousness. It all stews for a bit, people talk amongst themselves, the hear about things on Fox News, lefty blogs, and whatnot about some atrocious AUDACITY HOW DARE THEY, and go to the social media networks and bitch and bitch and bitch some more. It spreads. Things happen...
...and then they riot. Because, Goddamnit, it's so unfair that side X has ruined the world to the point that I can't afford a 60 inch LCD TV. Oh yeah, something about a black guy getting shot. I'm so totally not racist, just a neoconservativecapitalosocialocommunistlibertarian. Sorry I burned your house down, Maud. That's the price you pay for justice.
We, as a society, are spoiled children throwing a temper tantrum, because we've had it so good for so long, we can't handle even the smallest amount of adversity with any grace or poise.
Briareos H on 9/8/2011 at 19:05
Temper tantrum. Are you sure they're really rioting for a reason, tantrum as it may be? Because all I see from my foreign standpoint is some guys having fun feelin' part of it and shouting "Wooo! Let's burn this mother"
Renzatic on 9/8/2011 at 19:11
It had to start somewhere, some way, some how. Even if it has devolved into the "WOO YEAH BURN" situation we're now seeing, there was some politically motivated catalyst that got the initial rioters together in the first place. It obviously got out of hand, and it eventually drew in the fucking for fuckings sake crowd.
Plus it doesn't change the fact that even if it has grown beyond it's original intentions, and is now mostly people burning buildings for shits and giggles, everyone and their grandma is trying to use it as an example of why X policies fail, and it's all Y's fault.
SD on 9/8/2011 at 19:15
Quote Posted by Warren's Spectre
Sounds like another Jean Charles de Menezes.
It doesn't sound remotely like that. Menezes was a man minding his own business who was executed by police on a train because they thought he looked a bit like someone they thought could have been a terrorist. The man who was shot this week was a crack-dealing waste of space who was in possession of a gun in a country where that alone is enough for a minimum 5 year jail sentence.
