june gloom on 8/12/2009 at 05:08
Quote Posted by inselaffe
Which can be translated as "waaah i cnt du da drivings mommm, dis gam suks".
Go eat a bag of rotting dicks and choke on a mocha dong you miserable pigfucking asstank of a worthless troll. The driving physics fucking suck. The cars are too goddamn heavy and it's impossible to drive down the street without hitting something. Maybe in a more realistic game this wouldn't be a problem but it's fucking GTA we're talking about.
SubJeff on 8/12/2009 at 05:18
I really like the driving. The difference in vehicles is great and its tough enough to be challenging but not too hard. You can't do tight handbreak turns as easily as in Vice City but so what? There aren't enough bikes though.
ercles on 8/12/2009 at 05:41
Pretty much agree with what has been said by Scots, was a terrific game world, but I thought it just didn't work as a game. Each previous game consisted of plenty of repetitive missions, but there were dozens of memorable missions that stick in the memory. In GTA IV there were still plenty of repetitive missions, but it lacked the quantity of memorable missions. I guess driving a bike into the back of a carrier plane whilst it was taking off wouldn't have gelled with the serious tone. Although they did still go for you shooting helicopters out of the sky and committing mass genocide during a bank robbery. There just weren't enough stand out missions to keep me interested, I was pretty relieved when I finished GTA IV.
The other by product of the NY setting was I spent the whole time wishing I had a nice straight to open up the sports cars I had collected, there really wasn't any advantage to having a Lamborghini in your driveway in NY. Also where the fuck are my tanks/fighter jets?
Thirith on 8/12/2009 at 08:37
Quote Posted by dethtoll
I have GTA4 on my 360 because it was free. I've played about 30 minutes of it. That was enough to tell me I didn't give a shit- especially since the driving physics are 100% bullshit.
I didn't like the driving at first, but for some reason Rockstar decided to put you in a place at the beginning where the cars are pretty much crap. Once you get to the other islands, the cars handle much better. It's a design choice (and I had the same issue with
San Andreas), although it's an arguable one.
henke on 8/12/2009 at 10:19
Yes, enjoyed it and the driving physics are the best I've seen in any open-world sandbox game so far.
Quote Posted by mothra
I'm talking about using the sidewalk instead of the road while conversing about "how I feel in the USA" with my girl-friend.
So how about not driving on the sidewalk and trying to live into the character a bit more? I've seen you mention stuff like this before, like when you said you could jump around behind badguys in FC2 without them noticing. Why are you jumping around behind them in the first place? And why are you running down every pedestrian in your way in GTA4? You make absolutely no effort to
act as the character of the game is represented and then you whine that the character is acting schitzo? You seem the be entirely incapable of living yourself into the role of Nico Bellic, or any other role for that part.
Thirith on 8/12/2009 at 11:52
@Henke: while I don't agree with the vehemence of mothra's post, and while I enjoy GTA IV, I still do think he's got a point. The GTA games are sandbox games, allowing you to play as you see fit. That's the toolkit the series offers to the gamer: they can race through town, go on rampages, do motorbike stunts, see how many cops they can pull and whether they can escape a five-star pursuit. That's the game design.
If you then create a story and characters within that sandbox which result in either 1) you restrict your playstyle to fit the characters and plot or 2) you still enjoy the sandbox-style gameplay, but as a result the plot and characters don't make much sense, there is a tension between the gameplay the game offers and the story it tells. As long as GTA remained primarily silly, over-the-top satire, that tension isn't there. (I'd say that Vice City did this best, as Tommy Vercetti is pretty much a psycho.)
SubJeff on 8/12/2009 at 12:05
So tell us how you do it then? Do you create a plot that then branches all over the place dependent upon what you do? If you run people over do you then stop talking about the war and start waxing lyrical about how running people over is a pleasure you'd only get in the USA?
And don't talk to me about the linear(ish) plot and character development being off-kilter with the missions. Have you actually met any hardened criminals? People who do all sorts of bad stuff you wouldn't dream of doing, things you'd consider terribly immoral? Because I have and what you find surprising about them (if you're not ready for it) is that they can seem perfectly normal and rational, will talk about their family and how the divorce was really hard for them and how they really worry about the kids, and when you get down to it they tell you in a matter of fact way "I was on my way to pick up the money and I was supposed to hurt this guy bad afterwards, but they'd sent an assassin, a coloured chap (no offense meant) who sliced my belly open with a six inch knife. I gave him a knock and he ran off. Next thing I knew I was in the ambulance and now I'm here". Maybe that's why I get on with the plot - I've met plenty of these guys in my job (though they're not my fav, its the WW2 vets who have the best stories) and know how incongruous the "work"/life balance can be. At work I struggle in my dealings with the Kafka-esk hospital management, but that's part of the job. At "work" these guys have to watch out for/deal with the police, and that's part of the job.
ffs
henke on 8/12/2009 at 12:19
Thirith, well what I do is I run around and do all kinds of crazy shit, but when I start a mission I "get into character" and try to avoid hitting any pedestrians or cars while driving. And walking instead of running everywhere.
You do have a point though, that gamers will feel torn between playing the game as it's meant to be played and the way that it's the most fun to play. I think one of the biggest reasons Mafia managed to have a much more serious tone than the GTA games is that the driving wasn't all that much fun in itself, so gamers didn't feel like they were missing out on much if they acted more "grown up" behind the wheel.
Thirith on 8/12/2009 at 12:27
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
So tell us how you do it then? Do you create a plot that then branches all over the place dependent upon what you do? If you run people over do you then stop talking about the war and start waxing lyrical about how running people over is a pleasure you'd only get in the USA?
Oh, for fuck's sake. I've said several times that while I see mothra's point, it didn't stop me from a) enjoying the game and b) enjoying how they made the story and characters more serious. I think there is an incongruity there, though, and I think it's a valid point to mind that incongruity - suspension of disbelief doesn't work the same way for everyone.
That incongruity wasn't there with
Vice City (and, to a lesser extent,
San Andreas) because the earlier titles embraced their own goofiness much more. Just because you (and I) don't mind doesn't mean that the schizophrenia of
GTA IV can't be criticised. Mothra seems to think that it was a bad idea even to try to go more serious; my own thinking in the matter is that
GTA IV was a good first try and I'm looking forward to games that succeed better at combining wacky sandbox gameplay and believable moral dilemmas. As much as I liked Nico Bellic and especially the voice actor's performance, his speeches about how he's lost his way and his soul do seem rather "Methinks the Serbian doth protest too much" when seen in the context of his actions - a contrast that the game doesn't successfully resolve or put to good use. I really think it comes down to suspension of disbelief - which works for some but not for others.
Jason Moyer on 9/12/2009 at 02:23
Quote Posted by henke
Yes, enjoyed it and the driving physics are the best I've seen in any open-world sandbox game so far.
I think the driving in GTA4 is better than it was in the GTA3 games, but I dunno if I'd rate it at as highly as Mafia. That could be down to the sheer awesomeness of the missions where you steal/race the formula car, though.
