zachary1975 on 29/7/2011 at 20:28
Quote Posted by Chade
I'm confused. Am I the victim of some clever bit of reverse sarcasm, or did you take my suggestion seriously? :confused:
i meant,"are you kidding me"?
i said it that way so it didn't sound like an all out insult.
zachary1975 on 29/7/2011 at 22:15
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
And unless you manage to turn this thread into a discussion about loot in Thief 4, you're in the wrong sub forum. :p
:p
HA! it turned in to one without my help.:p
Beleg Cúthalion on 30/7/2011 at 10:31
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
The reason why I say "funny haunts and grandpa zombies in TDS" is because those opinions are widely held, and the fact that the better counterparts came earlier in the series is not because of misguided nostalgia. They're just better.
The question whether or not Kurshoks are better than rat/ape beasts or those insect things should be based on a more solid foundation than declaring it a "fact" or relying on fanbase opinion. The Kurshok and Gamall's gargoyles had more backstory than those TDP creatures that were simply
there and fan opinion is 1. far from unbiased and 2. not necessarily objectively correct. There are still lots of people accusing TDS of being too linear, while they haven't found the multiple ways in e.g. Rutherford Castle, Old Quarter or the Seaside Mansion. Plus, even TDS haters are often in disagreement about their personal pros and cons of the game. Some hate the gameplay elements and like the story, while others think vice-versa.
Quote:
I think you're suffering from misguided anti-nostalgia, thinking that nothing old can be good. Or more like "nothing old that many people think is better can actually be good because they're probably just misguided by nostalgia".
No, not "nothing" or "all", but parts of it. It is – even apart from the actual points in discussion – rather unrealistic to assume that every aspect of TDP/TMA was good or better than TDS. The problem is that nostalgia by blurring the reception of certain game elements makes it far harder to improve them or come up with something better, not because it isn't possible to create something better, but because the "nostalgized" thing is thought of as something it never was.
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Oh, and if my poll was so obviously biased, it doesn't matter. Because something obviously biased can't affect the votes of anyone smart enough to realize that. And even if it does, good. Because there are more people who have only played TDS than there are those who have only played the originals, and all are still allowed to vote. So if my biased options could influence someone's vote, it would only level the playing field instead of tipping the scales.
I had never the opinion that the majority of TTLG members did only play TDS. So what playing field are you about to level around here? More likely, the constant repetition of clichés about TDS and its faults (xBox limits, (non-)linearity, body awareness, intentional dumbing down for the console kiddies etc.) is cementing a sort of anti-nostalgia of TDS while a thorough discussion is avoided. It's IMHO some sort of emperor's new clothes phenomenon. My favourite example for that is that I never bothered about the movement control/body awareness thing before I came to TTLG. I considered xBox zones and the lack of German voice actors far more serious.
@zachary, as you can clearly see we're NOT talking about loot anymore. :p
Chade on 30/7/2011 at 12:25
Quote Posted by zachary1975
i meant,"are you kidding me"?
i said it that way so it didn't sound like an all out insult.
Good to know!
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
Oh, and if my poll was so obviously biased, it doesn't matter.
Wow, we're really off topic here, but whatever ...
For the record, I agree that a biased poll isn't the end of the world. Still, I would say that your silly "T1/2 vs T3 zombie" mini-poll mattered more then you think (to anyone who gives a shit about T3), for several reasons.
A poll is not your statement of opinion. A poll is an opportunity for other people to express their opinion. As the creator of the poll, you get the power to choose which words I'm allowed to use to express myself. You chose to give me the choice of either ignoring T3 zombies, or voting in favor of "grandma" zombies. It's an
extremely mild way of hazing anyone who would like to vote for T3 zombies. It's only a tiny problem, but even tiny problems are annoying when someone has deliberately laid them in front of you.
So what's the big deal? Why not just create my own unbiased poll, right? Well, that's not the way this place works. Nobody wants to vote in the same goddamn poll multiple times, and split the resulting commentary across multiple threads. We want to have one canonical poll were all the relevant discussion takes place. By creating your biased poll, you've created a disincentive for someone else to come along and put up their own unbiased set of options.
Finally, this forum already has the tendency to fight yesterdays battles rather then looking at the issues that will actually affect T4. T1/2 zombies vs T3 zombies is the perfect example. It's not going to affect T4. T4 has it's own art team with their own style. T4's zombies are not going to look like the zombies in either T1, or T2, or T3. By pitting T1/2 monsters against their T3 variants in your poll results, you're just creating a confused poll that doesn't know whether it's deciding what monsters should be in T4, or whether it's yet another popularity contest between T1/2 and T3. It's not obvious how to interpret the results*.
A better poll would simply to find out how many of us actually want zombies in T4 at all? (Answer: almost everyone.) If you're going to split that up into secondary options, probably the best option is to ask how often people would like zombies to make an appearance. (Once or twice? Regularly? Almost every mission?) There are many relevant questions you could ask about zombies in T4. T1/2 vs T3 isn't one of them.
If you're going to create the canonical poll about monsters in the T4 forum, you should have had the self-control to leave your baggage behind.
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* For instance, how do I do a "burrick vs zombie" comparison? Do I sum the two zombie rows? Do I have to put in the effort of removing duplicates? What does it mean if someone voted in both zombie rows? Does it mean they want both? Does it mean they want either? What does it mean if someone only voted in one zombie row? Does it mean they pathologically hate the other option? Does it mean they're happy with both, but have a mild preference for one option?
zachary1975 on 31/7/2011 at 02:24
:o
okay, i see it has drifted off topic.:o
jtr7 on 31/7/2011 at 08:35
That's normal.
